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  1. #1
    Legendary! Anarch Son of Gods's Avatar
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    TBC had the better endgame raidmodel.

    The problem is that guilds with less raidhours tended to serve as jumping boards for guilds with more raidhours. I personally did like the TBC raidmodel a lot better because it just felt like the endgame was a lot bigger and there was much more to do when you had 3 or 4 whole tiers worth of raidcontent laid out before you as opposed to the single raidtier of today with LFR which just helps you burn through the content.

    I'm just saying that in TBC it was a problem. The 2 days a week raidguilds served as recruitment pools for the 3 days a week raidguilds who served as recruitment pools for the 4 days a week raidguilds etc.

    If we'd ever go back to a TBC raidmodel then we need a fix to prevent this from happening again. Maybe we'd need to take a closer look at the guild reputation system and make the rewards bigger while making it much harder to build up reputation with a guild, to disencourage people from guildhopping their way to the top of progress.

    At the same time I also recognize that for many people raidshedules just are not an option. I wish Blizzard would find a way to offer solo-queue progression content, but LFR isn't the answer. I'm sorry, LFR is just garbage. There is nothing to do in it, it's a quick tourist trip without any challenge that gives you ... what, barely 2 hours of the same content every week? My ideal would be like League of Legends where you can click 'join ranked solo queue' and have a system that matches you up with other random people against raidcontent that is appropriate for your individual progression level or 'PvE ranking'.
    ♦ "It is easy to take insolence from those who are below you." ♦

  2. #2
    Like 98% of playerbase runs heroic dungeons / Karazhan for entire expansion? Hell no

  3. #3
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    I liked the model because as opposed to WoD i wouldnt have to clear the raid 4 times a week before progression mythic =/

    Same for Wrath forced into clearing 10s/ Same as now being forced into doing flex and maybe LFR if trinkets are great / split raid a couple weeks of the main raid.

    It's stupid personally. 1 raid mode plz

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    Like 98% of playerbase runs heroic dungeons / Karazhan for entire expansion? Hell no
    Tbc heroics + kara is something I would rather do then be subjected to LFR. Thank god I'm a heroic raider I pity the poor players who only have LFR. You may aswell watch a youtube video of the fight.

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    Also to elaborate on your solo que progression. Personally thats what I felt Brawlers guild was when it was current. And it was wonderful. Final 4 of Season 1

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    Also LOL @ guild perk to not hop up the raiding ladder. Those perks are fucking worthless. The only one that was ever worthwhile was mass summon and it was removed.

    Personally the perks should be worth a fuck. Add some new 5-10 levels to the guild in WoD and make it be "grindy" as fuck.

    they can be things like % chance higher for Loot from coin, % higher chance for Warforge / socket gear from Personal loot / coin loot, % more valor earned from tasks, % more conquest earned per BG/Arena. Reduces material requirements on crafts by %

    Give some actual perks people give a shit about and dear god. You might actually have ppl want to be guilded and not drop all their rep. Reduce rep guild gains to also dissuade from this.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2014-04-29 at 01:59 AM.

  4. #4
    Legendary! Anarch Son of Gods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    Like 98% of playerbase runs heroic dungeons / Karazhan for entire expansion? Hell no
    With the proper fixes in place to prevent guildhopping from happening, as I mentioned in the OP, that wouldn't have been the case. You would've had people who would've progressed through the tiers on their mains with their very casual raidguilds or even through PuGs instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Also LOL @ guild perk to not hop up the raiding ladder. Those perks are fucking worthless. The only one that was ever worthwhile was mass summon and it was removed.
    I was talking about personal guildreputation, not the 'levels of a guild'. TBC suffered from people hopping from guild to guild to increase their personal raidprogress, you'd basically need to have a system in place that would disencourage them to leave their current guild for another one with higher progress.
    ♦ "It is easy to take insolence from those who are below you." ♦

  5. #5
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarch the Conqueror View Post
    With the proper fixes in place to prevent guildhopping from happening, as I mentioned in the OP, that wouldn't have been the case. You would've had people who would've progressed through the tiers on their mains with their very casual raidguilds or even through PuGs instead.

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    I was talking about personal guildreputation, not the 'levels of a guild'. TBC suffered from people hopping from guild to guild to increase their personal raidprogress, you'd basically need to have a system in place that would disencourage them to leave their current guild for another one with higher progress.
    How about fuck no? Why should a player who wants to play with a better team and better themselves not leave a sinking ship or a toxic hellhole. Nevermind if the guild dies and they need a new home.

  6. #6
    Obvious post is obvious. Though they'll be an array of rhetoric like 'but it was too hard to get into a guild running T5' citing various excuses including but not limited to 'the attunement was ridiculously long ffs!!!!' (circa 4 hours played) etc etc

  7. #7
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    want in a guild doing T5 / T6? Don't be shit. Shocking requirements i know

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    Like 98% of playerbase runs heroic dungeons / Karazhan for entire expansion? Hell no
    Exactly. There were two reasons (IMO, anyways) why no one raided in TBC. The first being that everyone was so new to the game that raiding the very top raids were non existent on everyone's radar. The second being that if you wanted to raid more, you couldn't. There was no catch up mechanic. Most guilds couldn't be bothered to bring any one who had lower gear on. To say it was very elitist was an under statement. Those people would sit around Shattrath and "show off". Don't get me wrong, it is my favorite expansion to date, but I'm glad those days are long gone. And I'm glad Blizzard recognized it and started to change raiding in Wrath and so forth.

    I will say though that it would be different if the same system was implemented. Most people aren't new and have been through the ringers enough times to know how it works. So it is possible that it could work. Who knows.

  9. #9
    Legendary! Anarch Son of Gods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    How about fuck no? Why should a player who wants to play with a better team and better themselves not leave a sinking ship or a toxic hellhole. Nevermind if the guild dies and they need a new home.
    In that case they would simply need to make an assessment of gains and losses. Basically people who are in a toxic guild or one that performs very badly shouldn't feel disencouraged to join a better guild, but those who are in a perfectly fine guild that is progressing slowly shouldn't have a reason to join one that is further along in progress without being punished for it. This is ofcourse just an ideal, the practicalities of such or wether it's even achievable is a completely different matter that would need to be closely looked into.

    I'm quite convinced though that guildhopping behaviour was the main reason why the TBC raidmodel got abandonned by Blizzard and why the endgame only consists of a single relevant raidtier nowadays instead of the multiples of the past.
    ♦ "It is easy to take insolence from those who are below you." ♦

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer SL1200's Avatar
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    Wrath was the sweet spot for raiding, blizzard admitted it themselves in the post that went up yesterday.

  11. #11
    I agree, the BC model was great.

    If you wanted to see content, you had to know how to play your class. It's tough to digest these days, I know.

    For the people that were stuck doing heroics and Kara, I'm sure it was alot more fun then running LFR with retards every week. I would rather do BC heroic then ever do LFR ever again. Hell, COT heroics were harder then anything in Flex SOO aside from Garrosh.

  12. #12
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KClovesGaming View Post
    Exactly. There were two reasons (IMO, anyways) why no one raided in TBC. The first being that everyone was so new to the game that raiding the very top raids were non existent on everyone's radar. The second being that if you wanted to raid more, you couldn't. There was no catch up mechanic. Most guilds couldn't be bothered to bring any one who had lower gear on. To say it was very elitist was an under statement. Those people would sit around Shattrath and "show off". Don't get me wrong, it is my favorite expansion to date, but I'm glad those days are long gone. And I'm glad Blizzard recognized it and started to change raiding in Wrath and so forth.

    I will say though that it would be different if the same system was implemented. Most people aren't new and have been through the ringers enough times to know how it works. So it is possible that it could work. Who knows.
    Zul'aman and Quel'danis was a catch up mechanic. So was grinding Merc / Vengful /Brutal gear.

    thanks for lying

  13. #13
    If you could fix the guild hopping for progression I'd be for it.
    Professor Johnston often said that if you didn't know history, you didn't know anything. You were a leaf that didn't know it was part of a tree. ~Michael Crichton, Timeline

  14. #14
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarch the Conqueror View Post
    In that case they would simply need to make an assessment of gains and losses. Basically people who are in a toxic guild or one that performs very badly shouldn't feel disencouraged to join a better guild, but those who are in a perfectly fine guild that is progressing slowly shouldn't have a reason to join one that is further along in progress without being punished for it. This is ofcourse just an ideal, the practicalities of such or wether it's even achievable is a completely different matter that would need to be closely looked into.

    I'm quite convinced though that guildhopping behaviour was the main reason why the TBC raidmodel got abandonned by Blizzard and why the endgame only consists of a single relevant raidtier nowadays instead of the multiples of the past.
    Too much work no thanks. If you want to leave you should be allowed to leave not ask daddy to leave. Your logic is terrible.

    Also what the hell are you talking about do you know where thousands of apps that go out to top 50 guilds come from everyday? OTHER GUILDS. HURRRRRRRRR

    I'm interested in your nonsensical reasoning however, Enlighten me.

    Tell me some punishments for guild hopping you would put in. I'll get the popcorn.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2014-04-29 at 02:11 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Too much work no thanks. If you want to leave you should be allowed to leave not ask daddy to leave. Your logic is terrible.
    you seem rather angry today.
    Professor Johnston often said that if you didn't know history, you didn't know anything. You were a leaf that didn't know it was part of a tree. ~Michael Crichton, Timeline

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    want in a guild doing T5 / T6? Don't be shit. Shocking requirements i know
    And Keys. Remember keys?...I miss keys.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarch the Conqueror View Post
    With the proper fixes in place to prevent guildhopping from happening, as I mentioned in the OP, that wouldn't have been the case. You would've had people who would've progressed through the tiers on their mains with their very casual raidguilds or even through PuGs instead.

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    I was talking about personal guildreputation, not the 'levels of a guild'. TBC suffered from people hopping from guild to guild to increase their personal raidprogress, you'd basically need to have a system in place that would disencourage them to leave their current guild for another one with higher progress.
    Dude when people apply to your guild and you notice they've been in a lot of guilds do you think they will stick around in yours for long? There are many tools available to see guild history and how long they've been in those guilds. Guilds police this themselves. If you invite someone you suspect of guild hopping then you can sit them for awhile by just stating "we'll invite you to raid if a spot opens up." That way you can see if they are in your guild for instant gratification or not? There were many instances the player would suddenly drop guild the next day if they couldn't get in raid.

  18. #18
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    It wasn't the perfect raid model. Perhaps an improvement over vanilla mind you but not somehow flawless or *getting it right*.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron

  19. #19
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrIvoRobotnik View Post
    And Keys. Remember keys?...I miss keys.
    Oh you mean when the Key to kara you didn't need because if you got Merc / Vengful gear you would beable to jump into Tier 6?. Yeah I remember those keys. I also remeber the flood of people going into BT/Hyjal when attunments were removed. Or the Non existant one in Zul'Aman.

    If you didn't clear raids in TBC it usually boils down to. You sucked or no effort.

  20. #20
    Legendary! Anarch Son of Gods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glormon View Post
    If you could fix the guild hopping for progression I'd be for it.
    I think something like this might work:

    Different rewards for your personal reputation with your guild.
    Neutral: +0% chance on getting bonus loot, -0% repaircosts
    Friendly: +5% chance on getting bonus loot, -10% repaircosts
    Honored: +10% chance on getting bonus loot, -20% repaircosts
    Revered: +15% chance on getting bonusloot, -30% repaircosts
    Exalted: +25% chance on getting bonusloot, -50% repaircosts

    Bonusloot being a chance at a raidboss giving you an item just for your class or specialisation, sorta like the coins in MoP.
    ♦ "It is easy to take insolence from those who are below you." ♦

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