1. #1

    Combat severe energy cap

    Hi I am currently sitting on 17.1k haste and find myself capped on energy more times than I can count specially during pretty much every cd I use KS/AR ( not to mention at the start with BL). So basically my question here is, has anyone tried going for a lower haste build ( switching some haste gems to agility ones to lower the energy cap situation)? Would that be a dps increase since wasted energy would me wasted dps? Or does the haste, although capped, still overcome with the melee swings a more agility base build? If so is there a "haste cap" to overcome the cap issues I assume everyone with high gear encounters?

    Pls share your thoughts or experience.

  2. #2
    Well, I face the same issues during CDs but shadowcraft insists on haste gems. Thing is many people raid with agility gems even when their offspec is Assa.

    PS: I would rather cap than starve

  3. #3
    I'm at nearly 20k and haste is still my move valuable stat (its' extremely close now however)

  4. #4
    In terms of sims, it makes little difference whether you gem Haste or Agi. About 3k, or 1%.

    In terms of advantages, with Haste gemming you will also have more cd uptime, and do more damage during sustained cleave.

    Conversely, with Agi, you will do more damage during cd uptime, and more damage during bursty cleave (i.e. with BF/KS)(and bear in mind that most cleave lasts about 10 seconds, with the exceptions of Galakras and Spoils).

    Practically, you will also lose less dps to energy capping and latency with Agi gems. In my view that amounts to more than 1% damage, making Agi better on single target and overall. That is best for me and decisive – overall I do more damage with Agi (except on the few sustained cleave fights (Protectors, Galakras and Spoils) on which the tiny extra damage is now irrelevant).

    There is also the consideration that, with Agi you can still play Sub about 99% optimally, and Agi is also better for Assassination than pure Haste, if you care about min-maxing your other spec too (I do, and love to play Assassination on some fights).

    Finally, with Haste gemming you will spam more, which a lot people don't like (I hate it) in which case Agi gemming is better from a personal, QOL perspective.
    Last edited by jtstormrage; 2014-05-01 at 02:40 PM.

  5. #5
    If I am reading this correctly, you are energy capping sometimes outside of cooldowns? At 17k haste, you shouldn't be doing that. I am at 19k and there are times during CDs I won't energy cap. jtstormrage is correct, though. Now, you can just gem Agility over Haste and be just fine. It is slower, but it isn't much of a loss. I do it because of Garrosh. It isn't that bad.

    Basically, if you are tired of spamming and/or are worried about your energy capping, go Agility over Haste.

  6. #6
    Haste way triumphs agi during cleave and that's really what combat is all about is making good use of that blade flurry. I was playing around with SC the other day looking at sub and combat builds and really the only difference for both specs of either a haste build or an agi build was only like 2k dps either way so I figured might as well go haste since that'll make my cleave more effective and is still pretty good for sub.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Warstar View Post
    Haste way triumphs agi during cleave
    Sustained cleave. Which, depending on your guild of course, doesn't happen often now (Spoils?, Galakras). Burst cleave it's the other way around. On e.g. Sha of Pride, when adds spawn they live for few seconds. BF + KS will do more damage with agility gemming there. If you are good at timing things like KS and incoming tricks from other rogue, you may gain more from agility.

  8. #8
    Haste > Agility, simple as that. Try playing Combat and starve on energy (try proving grounds) and you will regret even making this thread :P

  9. #9
    Mechagnome DrArtorius's Avatar
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    Actually, Agi is punished more from latency than haste, every GCD is stronger as Agi... Delaying it will cause a higher loss, however we're talking about 50~100DPS loss difference at normal levels of lag.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    Haste > Agility, simple as that. Try playing Combat and starve on energy (try proving grounds) and you will regret even making this thread :P
    At low gear agility is even more important. If you're doing PGs while stacking haste, you're gimping yourself. You'll perform better with agi gemming in cms/pgs.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    At low gear agility is even more important. If you're doing PGs while stacking haste, you're gimping yourself. You'll perform better with agi gemming in cms/pgs.
    While this is true (mainly due to the fact that without Meta, 4pc, Legendary cloak working in CM's haste becomes devalued) it's also about as much fun playing low level combat (463) without haste as it is to ram your head into a brick wall.

    Generally speaking, Assassination is a much better choice for CM's because it offers better damage on bosses and scales better at lower ilvl.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by drattack View Post
    While this is true (mainly due to the fact that without Meta, 4pc, Legendary cloak working in CM's haste becomes devalued) it's also about as much fun playing low level combat (463) without haste as it is to ram your head into a brick wall.
    That's a matter of perspective. I did 9/9 CMs as agi-gemmed combat with only 6k haste. Know what? it was fine. It was still fun. It's a ton slower than 570 ilevel for sure but you know what? It still plays a lot faster than 463 assassination does.

    My observation is that people tend to be overly hyperbolic about combat's play at low gear. Even at 50e SS it's not that bad once you accept the fact that you aren't at 40%+ haste and that it's going to be slower.

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