1. #1

    Veteran's gear should be from CP only

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/139...ttle-4-29-2014

    Noticed this discussion in the EU forums and thought it would be a good discussion point here as well. The gist of the argument is that Gladiator's gear (the highest tier of pvp gear) should be from Conquest Points ONLY. With WoD it looks like there will be an RNG element with a chance for gear coming from a RBG win.

    This is bad because you really need to do RBG to progress even more than in the current system. A lot of people, myself included, despise RBG and don't wish to participate in them for gear. Making Gladiator's gear Conquest Point only purchased would fix both the RNG issue as well as not 'forcing' players into RBG. The counter argument is that 'you don't have to do it if you don't want to'. However, in order to stay competitive you would pretty much have to.

    Blizzard hasn't yet shifted from their stance of not admitting to mistakes and continuing to force RBG down PvP'ers' throats. But this is taking it a bit too far.
    Last edited by gestapo; 2014-05-02 at 07:58 PM. Reason: Changed Veteran to Gladiator

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/139...ttle-4-29-2014

    Noticed this discussion in the EU forums and thought it would be a good discussion point here as well. The gist of the argument is that Veteran's gear (the highest tier of pvp gear) should be from Conquest Points ONLY. With WoD it looks like there will be an RNG element with a chance for gear coming from a RBG win.

    This is bad because you really need to do RBG to progress even more than in the current system. A lot of people, myself included, despise RBG and don't wish to participate in them for gear. Making Veteran's gear Conquest Point only purchased would fix both the RNG issue as well as not 'forcing' players into RBG. The counter argument is that 'you don't have to do it if you don't want to'. However, in order to stay competitive you would pretty much have to.

    Blizzard hasn't yet shifted from their stance of not admitting to mistakes and continuing to force RBG down PvP'ers' throats. But this is taking it a bit too far.
    Conquest gear has a chance of dropping from the Celestials as is, and that's sorta pushing PvE on PvPers if you take it by that logic. Hasn't seemed to harm the top tier players, and anyone that's played this game long enough knows that RNG demands you get 8 pieces of the same slot before you'd get a full suit.. Giving an OPTION to get it ontop of the current CP system is fine, it's not like you can ONLY get it from RBGs

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfheart9 View Post
    Conquest gear has a chance of dropping from the Celestials as is, and that's sorta pushing PvE on PvPers if you take it by that logic.
    Exactly, and this is an oft complained about system. WoD is the perfect opportunity to change it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfheart9 View Post
    Hasn't seemed to harm the top tier players, and anyone that's played this game long enough knows that RNG demands you get 8 pieces of the same slot before you'd get a full suit.. Giving an OPTION to get it ontop of the current CP system is fine, it's not like you can ONLY get it from RBGs
    I disagree. I don't think RNG is a good model for the PvP gearing system. You get an additional chance to get gear from the RBG win. It's not an either/or thing. As a result you're compelled to slog through a tedious RBG because you'd be an idiot not to take the opportunity.

  4. #4
    Who cares? At best, you'll have full gear like 2-3 weeks before people who were less likely.

    I'm 100% sure they'll make it like celestials, so you can't get trinkets, weapon, head, shoulders etc. from them.

  5. #5
    Randomness is a factor for casual pvpers no matter what. You click that random button you get a random BG mixed with random people. Your chances of getting competent players is random the players you get on the other team are random.

    My point is without celestials pvp gearing still has a lot of randomness to it.

    If I understand the change correctly it will only really play a part if you RBG/Arena at a level that would increase your conquest cap currently. The change is to make the benefits of higher ratings more obvious. I wonder how many casual pvpers don't even realize that after a certain rating your conquest cap increases past 2200.

    I am not a fan of this change but haven't heard much about it besides the little bit they mentioned. IMHO I think they should make the conquest increase simple and easy to understand rather then add a bonus role that could possibly give me gear I already have.
    Last edited by Reveries1; 2014-05-02 at 09:33 PM.

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire IISlayerxII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reveries1 View Post
    Randomness is a factor for casual pvpers no matter what. You click that random button you get a random BG mixed with random people. Your chances of getting competent players is random the players you get on the other team are random.

    My point is without celestials pvp gearing still has a lot of randomness to it.

    If I understand the change correctly it will only really play a part if you RBG/Arena at a level that would increase your conquest cap currently. The change is to make the benefits of higher ratings more obvious. I wonder how many casual pvpers don't even realize that after a certain rating your conquest cap increases past 2200.

    I am not a fan of this change but haven't heard much about it besides the little bit they mentioned. IMHO I think they should make the conquest increase simple and easy to understand rather then add a bonus role that could possibly give me gear I already have.
    this, if you are 2k+ then no need to worry about this stuff really
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by IISlayerxII View Post
    this, if you are 2k+ then no need to worry about this stuff really
    Except being 2k in arenas is the same cap as being 1600 in RBGs, and those same rbgs have an extra chance to drop conq gear if I am understanding this right. Arenas are more difficult and give less rewards than rbgs already, now they are just doing way too much.

    I agree, the final tier pvp gear should be conquest only. They already split it into 3 tiers, so let the 2nd tier have a chance to drop or something.
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  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    I thought they said they're dropping the rbg conquest cap down to match arenas. They tacked on the rng loot thing so that people didn't completely stop rbgs altogether, but there's a huge difference between the two incentive models--come 6.0, you'll just have to win a couple rbgs to get your extra rolls. You can play with a retarded tradechat group at negative mmr and still get all your bonus rolls. I don't see how that's anything but an improvement over the current system, where you actually have to maintain a decent rbg cr.

    Also, it's not like you really have to do rbgs even now. Even if you're way behind in gear, there's enough time in a season for everyone to gear out and you can just push rating at that point.

  9. #9
    Special snowflakes wanting to feel like special snowflakes, more at 11.

    Are you serious? Why does it bother you how people get gear? You yourself said you don't like RBGs, so how does it affect you in the least?

    The PvP in this game has gone to an all-time low, they gave us BASE resilience, took it off gear, gave us PvP Power, they keep just candy-fying it so much it's not even fun anymore. Let people get their gear and move on.
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  10. #10
    PVP gear from world bosses has been a mistake from Vault of Archavon on.

    PVE-only players get pissed off when they finally get a drop and it's "worthless", PVP players don't want RNG in their gear acquisition.
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    You yourself said you don't like RBGs, so how does it affect you in the least?
    Because people are obligated to do RBGs for the chance at more upgrades, just like superstar raiders are currently "obligated" to do LFR. They are removing the impetus to do LFR, but making the impetus to do RBGs more obnoxious than it currently is. You are currently guaranteed a higher Conq cap and faster gear purchases over time, but in WoD you will have the same Conq cap and depend on RNG.

    Ask Mythic raiders how much they would like it if Mythic raids had a chance of dropping Mythic gear from satchels :P

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigana View Post
    Who cares? At best, you'll have full gear like 2-3 weeks before people who were less likely.

    I'm 100% sure they'll make it like celestials, so you can't get trinkets, weapon, head, shoulders etc. from them.
    It's still really stupid just like the world bosses.

    For example: When the pre-order for WoD was released, first thing I did was boost a shaman. I played my shaman a lot in BGs in order to gear up.

    My shaman was -extremely- lucky with gear drops in the sentence of me having already caught up to the curve without having stepped into a single arena at all.

    IMO this is ridiculous and shouldn't be in this game. The RNG makes it so those who barely do arena can get gear 300-400 rating above them were they to increase their rating.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    Special snowflakes wanting to feel like special snowflakes, more at 11.

    Are you serious? Why does it bother you how people get gear? You yourself said you don't like RBGs, so how does it affect you in the least?

    The PvP in this game has gone to an all-time low, they gave us BASE resilience, took it off gear, gave us PvP Power, they keep just candy-fying it so much it's not even fun anymore. Let people get their gear and move on.
    You're not very bright if that's all you got from it. If PvP is that bad hopefully you'll quit. Thankfully, the posts from these gentlemen explain it as clearly as possible.



    Quote Originally Posted by Baphomette View Post
    PVP gear from world bosses has been a mistake from Vault of Archavon on.

    PVE-only players get pissed off when they finally get a drop and it's "worthless", PVP players don't want RNG in their gear acquisition.

    Because people are obligated to do RBGs for the chance at more upgrades, just like superstar raiders are currently "obligated" to do LFR. They are removing the impetus to do LFR, but making the impetus to do RBGs more obnoxious than it currently is. You are currently guaranteed a higher Conq cap and faster gear purchases over time, but in WoD you will have the same Conq cap and depend on RNG.

    Ask Mythic raiders how much they would like it if Mythic raids had a chance of dropping Mythic gear from satchels :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Ermahgerd View Post
    It's still really stupid just like the world bosses.

    For example: When the pre-order for WoD was released, first thing I did was boost a shaman. I played my shaman a lot in BGs in order to gear up.

    My shaman was -extremely- lucky with gear drops in the sentence of me having already caught up to the curve without having stepped into a single arena at all.

    IMO this is ridiculous and shouldn't be in this game. The RNG makes it so those who barely do arena can get gear 300-400 rating above them were they to increase their rating.

  13. #13
    basically its blizz saying:

    we want to shove our failed idea of rbgs down the throat of the pvp community again, this time only harder.

    Give it up already, nobody likes rbgs. Not because they aren't theoretically fun, but the hacking, cheating, ddosing and also just getting 10 organised people is almost an impossibility.

    If it was regulated better so that external factors were not something that happened and also made bgs specifically tailored for 10v10 (like wsg and tp) then it might be more popular.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    basically its blizz saying:

    we want to shove our failed idea of rbgs down the throat of the pvp community again, this time only harder.

    Give it up already, nobody likes rbgs. Not because they aren't theoretically fun, but the hacking, cheating, ddosing and also just getting 10 organised people is almost an impossibility.

    If it was regulated better so that external factors were not something that happened and also made bgs specifically tailored for 10v10 (like wsg and tp) then it might be more popular.
    Exactly. I'd actually be interested if they stopped forcing it on people and instead tried fixing some of the glaring issues with RBG. If they really balance pvp around 3v3 arena why are they pushing RBG's so hard with no real back and forth on the problems with RBG's?

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