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  1. #101
    The reality was TBC had no ways to catch up if you started later on in the TBC expansion. Attunements slowed that down even further. That was why they were removed. It was a hassle and pointless to keep in.

  2. #102
    The only guilds that had to resort to poaching were those too focused on progression to actually stop and assist their guild members with attunements. The real issue is that everyone wants to be given a helping hand up when they're working their way to the top, but once they get there, they act like they're too busy to help others. I always figured helping others was kind of the point of a guild in the first place

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by purleedef View Post
    The only guilds that had to resort to poaching were those too focused on progression to actually stop and assist their guild members with attunements. The real issue is that everyone wants to be given a helping hand up when they're working their way to the top, but once they get there, they act like they're too busy to help others. I always figured helping others was kind of the point of a guild in the first place
    No one ever got past the first tier (of the expansion) without being focused on progression. This statement is somewhat redundant and really only fitting for ZG and Kara focused guilds.

  4. #104
    Dreadlord TwoNineMarine's Avatar
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    I personally don't mind attunements. I enjoy having to put in some effort. I would like to see them account wide though.
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  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by purleedef View Post
    The only guilds that had to resort to poaching were those too focused on progression to actually stop and assist their guild members with attunements. The real issue is that everyone wants to be given a helping hand up when they're working their way to the top, but once they get there, they act like they're too busy to help others. I always figured helping others was kind of the point of a guild in the first place
    I'm sorry but back then every guild poached. Each guild lost members to guilds in the tier above because burnout was so fierce. My own guild collapsed during TBC as due to losing key people (namely the main tanks in the 40 -> 10 man shrinkage) I had to level up one up and gear it up as a new main which put us behind progression, by the time we were nearly done with SSC and TK the attunements were gone and guilds still in those instances were wiped out practically overnight by the BT guilds.

    I for one don't miss attunements as a barrier to entry due to the chaos of organising a raid only to find out a bunch of people are not attuned so we are forced to help them attune instead of going where we wanted to go. I still have nightmares about the BWL runs that turned into UBRS runs just so we can raid that night.

  6. #106
    The Lightbringer Vellerix's Avatar
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    I liked attunements, it gave me an immense feeling of achievement. But not everyone feels the same way, seems to me like a fairly even split between people that love or hate it. There's no easy answer to appease both of these parties, attunements do have both pros and cons and any type of implementation, or lack of, is going to upset someone on either side of the fence.

    Perhaps attuning for Mythic mode or something might be a better alternative, although it kind of loses it's value when you've already seen and set foot inside the raid in other difficulties.

  7. #107
    Herald of the Titans Lilija's Avatar
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    Keeping old content relevant served no purpose what so ever. It was a huge burden as vast majority did not want to go back to stuff they have already done for months. I can agree the idea of doing a quest chain as whole guild is fun but that should be a one time thing for a guild. Attuning every new person in guild is not fun.

    Actually there is an easy solution. Make it required for raid leader to be attuned. That way a guild can attune several people so they can raid and everyone else can do the chain optionally. Not like the technology isn't there already as you need one person to complete normal to enter heroic.
    Last edited by Lilija; 2014-05-08 at 08:14 AM.

  8. #108
    The Patient
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    Isn't the legendary quest chain in sorts an attunement? As to join a competitive heroic raiding guild, not having the cloak would be a bit of a no-no. And during ToT the meta gem/cloak was a huge plus when recruiting.
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  9. #109
    Pandaren Monk Yggdrasil's Avatar
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    I think non-raid required attunements are perfectly ok. What I mean by that is something that an alt or new player can accomplish on there own without requiring a raid group to go back and carry people though older content should be in place. When you require a player to kill the last boss of raid T14 to get into T15 it limits the ability of so many people getting into T15 (because let us be honest, how many times have you cleared ToT since SoO came out?) that it hurts everyone across the board. Of course you could work around this with LFR, but than is it really an attunement or is it just getting dragged though the mud.

  10. #110
    Why couldn't they have the attunement quests without the actual attunement component? Just a "Hey, here's a cool, optional quest chain that gives you a nice backstory."

  11. #111
    Some people seem to have forgotten why people did all vanilla tier raids even if they were further into tiers. You know what that was? Tier sets spread over previous tiers.

    Vanilla Ragnaros being T1 boss also dropped T2 pants
    Onyxia being T1 boss also dropped T2 Helmet. There used to be a saying "Onyxia gives epic head"

    Attunements were not the only reason to go back doing old tiers.
    I think Blizz should try doing this again.
    Allow final bosses in raid wings to drop next tier loot as to give incentive to do them even though you progressed further.
    Or hey! Where is my VoA/BH? one dungeon, many tiers, where did that run off?
    Tier progression worked in Vanilla because there were no definitive boarders between tiers.
    Last edited by Dzudzadzo; 2014-05-07 at 10:41 AM.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by KOREAN DAVE View Post
    Attunements kept every raid in an expansion relevant in each content patch. And because of the necessity to clear harder content, this encouraged guild alliances and social interaction between guilds to get attunements and clear higher tired raids, leading to a stronger community bond.
    Wrong, it encouraged guild poaching and a bad stigma towards people that tried to apply for raiding guilds without being attuned to everything.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by KClovesGaming View Post
    The reality was TBC had no ways to catch up if you started later on in the TBC expansion. Attunements slowed that down even further. That was why they were removed. It was a hassle and pointless to keep in.
    I love when people say this up until you go and actually look at what the attunements ACTUALLY were. Once you do that, the only person thinking it is "unreasonable" is a fucking baby.

  14. #114
    The Lightbringer Kickbuttmario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverblade Paladin View Post
    Wrong, it encouraged guild poaching and a bad stigma towards people that tried to apply for raiding guilds without being attuned to everything.
    Who says guild poaching?? You honestly think it doesn't happen now? It happened to two guilds at my server in Wrath. One poached the other. Holy shit you people repeat the same stuff don't you. It occurs even to this day.
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  15. #115
    Epic! Warlord Booty's Avatar
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    Attunements were easily one of the best things this game ever had, anymore... raiding doesn't really matter as much, cuz everyone can do it (yes, lfr is raiding) and those that might be more inclined to do "real raiding", don't and won't, cuz they've already did it - and there is little point in doing it again but on a harder setting.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickbuttmario View Post
    Who says guild poaching?? You honestly think it doesn't happen now? It happened to two guilds at my server in Wrath. One poached the other. Holy shit you people repeat the same stuff don't you. It occurs even to this day.
    It happens less now days because the design doesn't force such devastatingly destructive churn on a server.

  17. #117
    Fluffy Kitten Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d0cHolland View Post
    Why couldn't they have the attunement quests without the actual attunement component? Just a "Hey, here's a cool, optional quest chain that gives you a nice backstory."
    That would be cool. Maybe have it reward something like bonus tokens, or a teleport-to-dungeon-entrance vanity item for flavor.

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  18. #118
    The Lightbringer Kickbuttmario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Briga View Post
    It happens less now days because the design doesn't force such devastatingly destructive churn on a server.
    How doesn't it. You do realize this problem is for the players, not the developer. Right? God damn it, Blizzard thought it was their own system that caused this but I saw it happen in Cataclysm and I didn't play much in MoP but I am 100% sure it happens still. People do this, the system doesn't force it to happen.

    This whole hypocrisy is insane. How can you people not understand. They have removed so much requirements to even raid. The only attunement most players need now, and the problem Blizzard created, is gear. Gear is so much powerful now then it was back at TBC or Vanilla. People want high ilevel 550 req. to even raid normals or a legendary cloak to even raid in heroic guilds. Back in TBC, all I could remember was people hoping to god you come in enchanted fully and geared to the requirement, usually some epics and blues of 110+.
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  19. #119
    Brewmaster Breccia's Avatar
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    Talking Skull: "Welcome, mortal. Are you here at Scholomance to bring an End to the Suffering?"
    Dkpwnface: "Yep, just want to cross that achieve off the list."
    Talking Skull: "Excellent! Now, enter the dark university, find Darkmaster Gandling, and...wait, what's your Reputation with the Argent Dawn?"
    Dkpwnface: "Hmm? Oh, neutral I guess. I mostly PvP."
    Talking Skull: "Oh, I guess you'll have to come back later. Get at least Honored, then I'll give you the next --"
    Dkpwnface: "What? You're turning down my help? Because I didn't do a bunch of grinding quests?"
    Talking Skull: "It's for your own protection. I have to be sure you're ready for the challenges within."
    Dkpwnface: "I'm fully decked out in Season 15 gear! I could solo this place, easily!"
    Talking Skull: "PvP gear? Ouch. Yeah, you're totally not ready for this."
    Dkpwnface: "IT HAS THE SAME STAT BUDGET as PvE gear!"
    Unfortunately-Flagged Level 41 Gnome: "Mr. Skull, could I accept the--"
    Talking Skull: "Hold on a second shorty, I'll be right with you. Listen here, you clearly don't know what you're getting yourself into. Without the full and rich backstory of Lilian Voss, there's no chance you'd appreciate the depth of the atmosphere of the five bosses within, two of which don't even mention Lilian in any way at all. So you're going to come back with Honored Argent Dawn, after which I'll give you the first two quests to get the key to normal mode --"
    Dkpwnface: "Normal mode is a level 40 instance!"
    Talking Skull: "So that won't take you long at all, will it? After you do normal mode, you'll be allowed to purchase the key for Heroic Mode, from the --"
    Dkpwnface: "You can't be serious! I literally have the firepower and armor of a 21st-century light tank. I'm even carrying a bag full of engineering high explosives! See, watch!"
    Unfortunately-Flagged Level 41 Gnome: "What's he doWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGH"
    Smoldering bits of gnome are found in nearby continents.
    Talking Skull: "You're just going to have to accept that I'm not letting you inside the instance until you've proven yourself worthy by spending a few hours running fetch quests, followed by spending a small fortune. Oh, and that goes for your friends too. It really slows down the LFD process, too!"
    Dkpwnface: "You know what? I think I've found another achievement I'd rather have instead."
    *shhhinnnng*
    Talking Skull: "Wait, what are you do--"
    Dkpwnface: "Runestrike!"
    *VORCH*
    Dkpwnface has received the "Skullf***er" Achievement, for 10 points!
    Last edited by Breccia; 2014-05-07 at 03:53 PM.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoaric View Post
    While I do not think that attunements should make a return in the form they previously
    had, I do think that some form of them should return.
    For example: Before entering LFR, you must have either done this quest chain, or have
    done the raid on another character. (Downing the boss or doing the quest chain unlocks
    it account-wide. Also could just be for fun overall, or required for all difficulties.)
    The quest chain would not require previous raids or things from them, instead it could
    require things from around certain zones, or the most recently added dungeons. The
    chain would be able to be completed on multiple characters, but it wouldn't be required.

    -IE: Past the first time, it's just for funsies.

    (PS: I do in fact use LFR.)
    So.. in WoD you want one of the two gearing methods to enter Normal to be locked to having done the raid on another character... meaning the first character HAS to do Heroic Dungeons and doesn't get a choice? Why do people keep forgetting that LFR is going to be an alternate gearing method to H Dungeons?

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