[TV] Gotham

[s_bushido]

I actually thought this was the best episode so far. Mostly because they're developing the characters without shoving the "hey! this is Batman!" down our throats this time around.

I don't get the Barbara character, I don't get the relationship with her and Montoya, especially as there's a whole scene setting up "Ask him about Cobblepot" then she doesn't even ASK him about it, but seems to assume he's still good... And then Cobblepot TURNS UP AT HIS FUCKING DOOR so what was the point of the whole scene with Barbara and Montoya, trying to sow the seeds of doubt, that just makes Montoya look like a huge bitch...

Montoya is jealous, so she's got more than just a professional interest in sticking it to Gordon. As for why Barbara didn't ask him about Cobblepot...well, he had just gone through this whole spiel about how he was disgusted at the corruption all around him. So it's easy to imagine that she's giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[Jotaux]

I'm glad they didn't have Barbara go down the "secrets and lies!" path, that shits just old now.

[cyberglum]

One thing I noticed in the first and second episode (which was missing from the third, so I might be talking rubbish) was the reference, first with the comedian auditioning for Fish and then the 2 guys in the car who picked up Cobblepot, was that they were both "jokers". I was beginning to think each episode would have something eluding to this, basically dropping us viewers red-herrings in respect to introducing the proto-Clown Prince of Crime.

I'm happy with the kid playing Bruce, he seems to carry it well for such a young actor. I'm slightly disturbed at myself for finding the actress playing Selina really attractive

Interesting that they've named the Police Chief Sarah Essan (Detective Sarah Essan and Gordon have a brief affair in Batman: Year One) TBH I can't see the TV shows Gordon and Essan getting together, which is a shame. The affair helps build Gordon's character, showing he isn't as strong/irreproachable as he could be, making him as human as the next person.

I'm not a fan of the Barbara character. Does anyone know exactly what she does for a living? That's a pretty swanky apartment she owns/rents. I'd have preferred an actress less Hollywood looking, shes almost too glamorous, someone a bit more down to earth looks-wise would have bee better in my opinion.

I hope they spend a little more time on Bruce and Alfred. Some comments in this thread have been picking-up on Alfred's portrayal. My take is that the loss of Bruce's parents hasn't just impacted on Bruce himself, but Alfred also. In post-crisis continuity Alfred has had no children of his own, so suddenly becoming Bruces sole ward must be difficult for him and I'm sure his behaviour towards Bruce will develop over time. Also, love me a bit of Pertwee, he should and needs to get more screen time.

The main character I have issues with is Jada Pinkett Smith's Fish Mooney. It feels to me like they just created the role for her. Her acting is pretty bad, plus the character doesn't have any consistency (she seemed pretty upset at her toyboy being ruffed-up in Ep 2 then wants to get rid of him in Ep 3...). She just seems to be a plot device, with each of her scenes repeatedly re-enforcing the point that shes going to lead an underworld coupe against Falcone. How many more episodes can they keep this up without it becoming excessively boring?

Robin Lord Taylor's Cobblepot is the star of the show at the moment, hes knocking it out of the park.

[Bluesftw]

I think i've finally figured out whats wrong with this show. When you're watching batman movies there are scenes/plots that might be boring or dreary or dull, but they lead to the point where batman shows up and kicks some butts and the action begins, the show is just all those scenes combined but batman never shows up ;/

[Gallahadd]

the show is just all those scenes combined but batman never shows up ;/

Which is why a lot of people, myself included watch the show.

[Mteq]

i find myself enjoying the redline stories a whole lot more then the individual cases. Cobblepot's story is really intriguing. he just works his way up to be the mob boss of Gotham by knowing exactly who to speak to and what to say. really intelligent character.

the individual cases (the episode plot) are all very simple and solved mostly due to cheer luck. what i do like is how each and every one of them has an influence on the way Bruce thinks. they all contribute to how he will eventually be batman, the way he thinks. for example in episode 3 he sees the ballonman as a vigilante and trying to do good, but in a wrong way by killing people. so he is still a bad guy

i have yet to form an opinion on Barbara. i am intrigued by the story and it can go places. especially since the MCU cop woman had a relationship with her and has double motives to go against Jim Gordon. i hope it developed properly, i mean, why is she constantly getting high in the first place.

fish mooney is..sigh..i don't even know. it feels as a cheap support roll for the cobblepot story. it will probably wind up to cobblepot vs mooney as the major mob figures in gotham. it's probably the main story of season 1 where mooney will end up dead and cobblepot behind bars. finishing off season 1 and should it get renewed for season 2, they can simply go to the next major villain.

[Kalcheus]

I felt last night's episode was the best one so far. I really like what they're doing with Cobblepot, I just wish they were doing it slower because it seems like next week's episode is going to bring it to a head faster than I would expect.

- - - Updated - - -

fish mooney is..sigh..i don't even know. it feels as a cheap support roll for the cobblepot story. it will probably wind up to cobblepot vs mooney as the major mob figures in gotham. it's probably the main story of season 1 where mooney will end up dead and cobblepot behind bars. finishing off season 1 and should it get renewed for season 2, they can simply go to the next major villain.

I guess it depends on how closely they follow the source


The Roman (Falcone) and Maroni are too major in the Batman mythos to be supplanted before Bruce dons the cowl. Cobblepot probably ends up in Arkham, yes, but Mooney probably will not be replacing Falcone - at best, she may form a third mob head.

[Gallahadd]

Agreed Chrth, this latest episode was... Just SO freaking good. Easily the best one yet, I'm even warming to Fish, who has really toned it down and is starting to grow on me. Although I still don't think she'll survive the season .

Oswald continues to be freaking epic, such an amazing actor, I really hope he sticks around for a while, like well past season one... I'll never look at a Cannoli again .

[galimim]

Best episode so far. Loved Lizas rendition of Spellbound by Siouxsie And The Banshees

[Deleted]

Had to laugh at two scenes; first one was at the beginning when Gordon did his best Batman "WHERE IS RACHEL?" voice completely with spitting around and second one was Barbara's confession about Montoya. What does a man think if his girlfriend confessed that she has a bisexual past. "Jackpot!"? "How can I use this for a threesome?"

I overall like the show but sometimes it just wants to be too dark for its own sake and then stumbles into scenes like that. And second episode in a row with two chicks kissing... Yet again, feels forced to me.

The introduction of Arkham and the Asylum sign were awesome. Penguin had the upper hand as always. Shame that they didn't refer to the Joker's broken pool cue game of death. The henchman was a little bit too boring (wow a pipe with a knife!) as well as every scene with Bruce and Alfred.

[Kalcheus]

Another good episode tonight (yay no Barbara!) with a nice callout to a future villain.

Two thoughts:
It's interesting that it appears that there are villains within Wayne Enterprises. I just don't see what Bruce can do about them.

I'm still not buying all the machinations against Falcone. And it's a little annoying that there's so much narrative focus on what canonically would be a non-starter of a storyline. Then again, I'm willing to give the creators a chance to bend canon for dramatic purposes, but if it ends up Falcone survives as I expect (especially with a "twist" of him taking full advantage of the situation) I'll be pretty disappointed.

[Gallahadd]

Prepare to be disappointed then Chrth...

While I'm sure they're going to take a FEW liberties with Canon (Oswald being behind the Wayne murders) I can't see them killing off a huge character like Falcone, to replace him with a fairly awful character like Mooney, who while better than she was in the pilot, is still by FAR the worst actor in the show.

Shout out this weak to the second worst actor in the show, young David Mazouz, for his really rather excellent performance, the young Bruce is starting to grow on me.

[Kalcheus]

I've been impressed with young Bruce for a while now, but the last scene was the first time I actually liked Alfred.

I wish that they had reversed Mooney (or someone else) and Falcone in the hierarchy. We'd know that Falcone would move up at some point, but the ambiguity of when would make the plot less predictable.

Here's hoping for some great execution.

[Gallahadd]

I wish that they had reversed Mooney (or someone else) and Falcone in the hierarchy. We'd know that Falcone would move up at some point, but the ambiguity of when would make the plot less predictable..

That would have been much better. Have Fish Mooney as the Crime Lord running the city, with her two lieutenants Falcone and Marone, then slowly have her lose power and them take over, then argue, fall out and divide power.

Then the penguin takes over everything.

[Wyattbw09]

I am sort of curious regarding the whole build up regarding Fish vs Falcone aspect of the show.

Unless I am missing something, we all know how this is going to end, and we all know who is going to win this fight. Falcone is already the boss, this is not like seeing the rise of Penguin or the early days of Bruce Wayne and Gordon. It seems like a just unnecessary sideshow in which the end result can't really result in anything new.

[Immitis]

shouldve called this show penguin, because thats why i watch it :P

[s_bushido]

That would have been much better. Have Fish Mooney as the Crime Lord running the city, with her two lieutenants Falcone and Marone, then slowly have her lose power and them take over, then argue, fall out and divide power.

I've figured it out. They're going to pull a Smallville (Jimmy Olsen) or Caprica (Bill Adama). The Falcone we see on the show isn't the real Falcone...it's just his cousin/brother...

[Kalcheus]

I've figured it out. They're going to pull a Smallville (Jimmy Olsen) or Caprica (Bill Adama). The Falcone we see on the show isn't the real Falcone...it's just his cousin/brother...

They've called him The Roman though. I don't see how they could bait/switch.

I think what'll happen is that they're going to make it look like he's primed for a fall (last night's ep was a series of them: Maroni heisting the casino; Niko challenging him in front of his Lieutenants; the secret weapon getting an in) and then he'll turn the tables and he'll have had some plan that explains why he allowed all this to happen. He'll emerge even stronger at the end of the season with Niko dead and Mooney (if not dead) and Maroni put in their places.

So as I said above, what matters is the execution: how believable, well-acted, etc., it all goes.

[Wyattbw09]

I've figured it out. They're going to pull a Smallville (Jimmy Olsen) or Caprica (Bill Adama). The Falcone we see on the show isn't the real Falcone...it's just his cousin/brother...

I actually already thought that about Barbara that she is just a girlfriend with the same name.

[s_bushido]

They've called him The Roman though. I don't see how they could bait/switch.

pfft. Easily solved: the real Falcone could just assume/be given that nickname out of respect for his predecessor.