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  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by bryroo View Post
    I think it's a safe assumption to say that addiction is a large factor as well. More than technical hurdles at any rate.

    Blizzard isn't in a rush to get content out because a large amount of the player base is going to keep paying no matter what they do. Why make hold over patches or get the expansion finished in a reasonable amount of time when the players are showing them they're fine with running TI and SoO for another 6 months?
    I'm arguing with you on an MMO fansite where I have like 14,000 posts so I can't say that addiction isn't a factor!

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by Markred View Post
    I think hes being sarcastic, ffxiv is supposed to be terrible :P
    hey ffxiv is pretty good.

    its just that nothing compares to wow.

  3. #603
    Yay! Warfare!
    Only to be expected

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    Quote Originally Posted by kazso View Post
    You think, that those 7.6m subscribers are all from US and EU?
    Around 4m subscribers are still asians, who don't pay a monthly fee. Only the rest (3.6m) are from US and EU.
    Ummm.... they actually do..... The only thing they don't pay is the Expansion Pack

  4. #604
    Herald of the Titans Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataraxia123 View Post
    Yay! Warfare!
    Only to be expected

    - - - Updated - - -



    Ummm.... they actually do..... The only thing they don't pay is the Expansion Pack
    *China has an Hourly Rate as far as wow goes
    Synek - best rogue in the world
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't think I know what the acronym "tsg" is. It's not RBG's or Arena, random battlegrounds, or any form of dungeon or raid that I can think of. What does it mean?

  5. #605
    For as long as the subscriber figures have been publicly available, there has been countless theories on the reasons behind the changes. Ultimately all of Blizzard's combined efforts affect that number - development, content, support, communication, marketing etc. -, so it's very hard to say "WoW lost X subscribers because exactly A". Anyway, I've taken some time to add more tooltips to chaud's graph - so at least we get some amount of context (click to enlarge):



    For reasons mentioned above I won't be able to draw any conclusions, but here are some observations for discussion:

    1) Major content releases appear to have little impact on overall subscriber base
    2) Localization appears to have a big impact on overall subscriber base
    3) The Annual Pass might have had the biggest impact on overall subscriber base of any one initative
    Last edited by Lachtobi; 2014-05-09 at 12:55 PM.
    Guild Leader of Eye of the Tigger on EU-Draenor

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
    hey ffxiv is pretty good.
    My experience on FFXIV:

    (1) Install game.
    (2) Create character.
    (3) Sit there, appalled, while the beginning RP cutscenes play at like 5 fps.
    (4) Finally get to control the character, and discover that's about how fast the graphics work in general.
    (5) Log off and never go back.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Just saying the bad graphics isn't helping.
    I can only speak for myself, but if they changed the graphics so it looked like FFXIV, I'd never come back. I'm quite certain it makes no difference either way.

    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Inertia exists?

    Seriously, if WoW launched today in its current state, it will be laughed out of the market.
    Same goes for FFXIV if we fast forward 10 years and launch it without changing anything. Seriously, what's you're point here?

    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Just saying first impressions count. It doesn't matter how great your gameplay is if you can't even convince people to install your game.
    There's an English idiom that goes: "Don't judge the book by its cover", which seem to fit here nicely.

    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Each to their own I guess.

    I have no problem with cartoony graphics per se, but WoW's is ... "underwhelming" to say the least.
    Each to their own indeed. Some people really dig the graphics of the Torchlight series. Others hate it.

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    My experience on FFXIV:

    (1) Install game.
    (2) Create character.
    (3) Sit there, appalled, while the beginning RP cutscenes play at like 5 fps.
    (4) Finally get to control the character, and discover that's about how fast the graphics work in general.
    (5) Log off and never go back.
    I think the problem is your computer, not the game. :3

    Seriously though, what are you running on? Ffxiv 1.0 was horrible on most machines, 2.0 is much much easy on the hardware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PolleDK View Post
    I can only speak for myself, but if they changed the graphics so it looked like FFXIV, I'd never come back. I'm quite certain it makes no difference either way.
    Maybe to you.

    But there must be a reason EA/Activision spend so much on graphic engine development.

    Same goes for FFXIV if we fast forward 10 years and launch it without changing anything. Seriously, what's you're point here?
    My point was graphics matter. There is a reason SE developed FFXIV. They are well aware that FFXI is dated and won't be able to bring in all that many new players, in addition it will get harder and harder to retain subs against newer prettier MMOs.

    There's an English idiom that goes: "Don't judge the book by its cover", which seem to fit here nicely.
    You can quote as many idioms as you like. Human nature isn't going to change.

    Not to mention, for a great many people, the graphics factor significantly in their enjoyment of the game.

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Maybe to you.

    But there must be a reason EA/Activision spend so much on graphic engine development.

    My point was graphics matter. There is a reason SE developed FFXIV. They are well aware that FFXI is dated and won't be able to bring in all that many new players, in addition it will get harder and harder to retain subs against newer prettier MMOs.
    Then how come none of all those pretty MMO's has managed to copy the success of WoW? Not saying graphics are totally irrelevant, just that, at least for an MMO, content and game play matters more.

    Besides, upgrading the graphics in a 10 year old game would be risky as hell. Just look at all the people whining every time Blizzard actually did improve things, 'cuz now they can't run the game quite as smoothly. Plus, you risk destroying the look and feel of the game.

    If they did a World of Warcraft II - then I'd expect much better graphics - but in a 10 year old game? Come on...

    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    You can quote as many idioms as you like. Human nature isn't going to change.
    Quite right. Still, the idiom holds true. What good is a game, if all it has is pretty graphics? People will flock to it like flies on a turd, but will quickly leave again when they find there's nothing to do. Some sort of trade of is required.

    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Not to mention, for a great many people, the graphics factor significantly in their enjoyment of the game.
    I'm not denying that there aren't many people that value great graphics. However, WoW proves that there are even more who doesn't care (to a certain degree albeit).

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by PolleDK View Post
    Then how come none of all those pretty MMO's has managed to copy the success of WoW? Not saying graphics are totally irrelevant, just that, at least for an MMO, content and game play matters more.

    Besides, upgrading the graphics in a 10 year old game would be risky as hell. Just look at all the people whining every time Blizzard actually did improve things, 'cuz now they can't run the game quite as smoothly. Plus, you risk destroying the look and feel of the game.

    If they did a World of Warcraft II - then I'd expect much better graphics - but in a 10 year old game? Come on...
    Wasn't talking about MMOs in particular.

    EA has Frostbite. Ubisoft has Snowdrop. All graphical powerhouses that take millions to build.

    I'm not asking that Blizzard upgrade WoW's graphics. I just pointing out that it isn't working in it's favour. To be blunt, Blizzard should have had WoW2 in the pipeline by now to "take over".

    Quite right. Still, the idiom holds true. What good is a game, if all it has is pretty graphics? People will flock to it like flies on a turd, but will quickly leave again when they find there's nothing to do. Some sort of trade of is required.
    It doesn't hold true. That's what I'm trying to tell you.

    There is a reason people dress well for job interviews. First impressions matter!

    Also, you are making the incorrect assumption that "good graphics = bad gameplay".

    I'm not denying that there aren't many people that value great graphics. However, WoW proves that there are even more who doesn't care (to a certain degree albeit).
    The number is dropping though.

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Wasn't talking about MMOs in particular.

    EA has Frostbite. Ubisoft has Snowdrop. All graphical powerhouses that take millions to build.
    Fair enough, was assuming we were talking about MMO's on MMO-Champion

    I like good graphics just as much as the next guy, I just value good game play higher - especially in MMO's. In let's say an FPS game, it's a completely different story. It's mostly point and shoot, I expect pretty graphics while I run around and shoot, but don't expect tons of game play if I'm honest with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    I'm not asking that Blizzard upgrade WoW's graphics. I just pointing out that it isn't working in it's favour. To be blunt, Blizzard should have had WoW2 in the pipeline by now to "take over".
    Well, isn't that rather obvious? Given it's age? Any game that old will have things working against it. Guess I'm just trying to say it's a moot point.

    WoW2 in the pipeline, maybe - but that's not really the Blizzard way is it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    It doesn't hold true. That's what I'm trying to tell you.

    There is a reason people dress well for job interviews. First impressions matter!
    That's the entire point of the idiom. If you hire based on how well a person dresses, you run the risk of employing the wrong guy for the job, instead of the perfect guy, who didn't suit up.

    I have several times judge a person on first impressions, thinking "what an arse!". Then later on realized how wrong I was. First impressions are just that. First impressions. The point of the idiom is that you should not let first impressions decide for you.

    That might be the way the world works (sadly) - but it doesn't invalidate the idiom at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Also, you are making the incorrect assumption that "good graphics = bad gameplay".
    No that was just an example of how great graphics doesn't necessarily equal a great game. Nor does bad graphics necessarily equal a bad game.

    And that's the point I'm trying to make with that idiom.

    The cover on a book might look like crap, and the story might be crap as well - but you won't know until you've read it. Might turn out to be the greatest book of all time - just with a crappy cover.

    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    The number is dropping though.
    Would you expect anything else, given it's age?

  12. #612
    Like it or not, there's probably a decent portion of the playerbase who play WoW because it's system demands are quite low. I was one of those players until quite recently. A massive overhaul could easily lose those players.

    Would an improved graphics engine entice more players than the potential losses? I don't have the answer, nobody here will, but it's something to consider.

  13. #613
    I am Murloc! Xuvial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesahaettr View Post
    Like it or not, there's probably a decent portion of the playerbase who play WoW because it's system demands are quite low. I was one of those players until quite recently. A massive overhaul could easily lose those players.

    Would an improved graphics engine entice more players than the potential losses? I don't have the answer, nobody here will, but it's something to consider.
    As I said earlier, a graphics overhaul doesn't mean an increase in system requirements. It's called "scaling". There are many games which run extremely well on low-medium graphics, while offering ultra/extreme settings for people who are running proper gaming rigs.

    Currently at max settings WoW doesn't even come close to stressing out the CPU or GPU.

  14. #614
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesahaettr View Post
    Like it or not, there's probably a decent portion of the playerbase who play WoW because it's system demands are quite low. I was one of those players until quite recently. A massive overhaul could easily lose those players.

    Would an improved graphics engine entice more players than the potential losses? I don't have the answer, nobody here will, but it's something to consider.
    It certainly isn't attracting new players with those dated graphics. That's for sure.

  15. #615
    meanwhile.. I see wildstar in Tera's place next year



    the entire MMO genre must re-invent itself. Thanks, Locusts

  16. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldrain View Post
    meanwhile.. I see wildstar in Tera's place next year
    Keep dreaming.

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