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  1. #1
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Nerf arms warriors thread

    I'm surprised nobody on these forums have made a thread about the absurd state of Warriors. I guess everyone here is okay with this brainless class mashing a skilless rotation with little to no resource system while mindlessly funneling what seems like endless amounts of control, interrupts and gap closers all on short cool downs and no resource requirements. I have no idea why Blizzard would buff Warrior damage, utility and mobility all in one patch. There have literally been more Warrior buffs in 5.4 alone than if you compare the whole wotlk and cataclysm expansions combined.

    I knew ahead of time that Buffing Slam, Mortal Strike, Deep Wounds, Bladestorm, Sweeping Strikes were bad ideas. Arms did respectable damage in 5.3 for a class that easily has the best gap closers and raw defensive capability that they have. The only thing I thought needed to happen was a buff to Colossus Smash's ArP to 60% as Warriors were lacking against mail and plate targets. But I guess pve happened and Blizzard wanted to make Arms competitive in pve so they buffed Slam by 25% and added a bonus 10% buff against targets affected by Colossus Smash. They added a bunch of cleave buffs to Sweeping Strikes and buffed Bladestorms damage to the point that it literally feels like Wotlk levels again except at least in LK Bladestorm had a 90 second cool down. They need to put the disarm effect on the shit asap because there's literally no counter against Bladestorm if you play certain unfortunate classes.

    Speaking of retarded amounts of cleave damage, the buff to Deep Wounds (65% buff) and Thunderclap were completely unneeded but again, pve happened. Warriors literally deal more cleave damage than Unholy DK's and like Unholy DK's, the damage is completely easy to spread. Thunderclap costs only 10 rage because they for no reason decided to buff seasoned soldier that it now reduces the rage cost of Clap. Thanks pve. At least other classes like Hunters received heavy amounts of utility nerfs to compensate for their retarded pve buffs. Same thing should've happened to Warriors.

    If they literally just buffed the utility and left damage alone, nobody would be complaining about Arms. I guess the only complaints would be the typical "defensive stance/second wind" qq from people who've never played a Warrior or don't know what they're talking about. But those would fade over time when people got 522 gear because that's what it'll be balanced around. Warriors have 25% passive reduction because they have no ability to control their health bar outside of Rallying Cry which doesn't really even "heal" but I guess it does if you look at it from a different perspective. I understand passive reductions are skillless but that's how the Warrior class is designed. It's just the nature of the beast and people have to accept that Warriors are going to have this type of survivability to counter the fact that they have no real "heal" ability.

    Anyway, the changes that need to happen to Warriors are basically reverts to their utility buffs. Blizzard isn't going to nerf their damage. It will affect pve and it just isn't going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if they change nothing with Warrior entirely, as they've just buffed Fury damage (pve) without any changes to utility. Basically the intervene buff needs to be reverted, that way Warriors will be forced to spec into Safeguard eliminating the fact that they have access to two INSANT reflects that cost literally no resources.

    The next thing they need to do is put shield requirements back on. I know this far fetched as its probably not going to happen but I believe it needs to happen. Warriors shouldn't be allowed to deal normal damage during Shield Wall. Shield Wall should be an ability that helps the Warrior survive but forces him to lose his pressure. It's freaking on a three minute cool down. It needs a Draw back. And I don't want to hear how ferals, DK's, Rogues or whatever class can deal pressure during defensive cool downs. Those are different classes with different sets of advantages and disadvantages. To claim that since Rogues can dps normally through combat Readiness so Warriors should be able to during Shield Wall is absurd.

    Another reason for the shield Requirements to be put back on is to help casters be able to juke a spell reflect. Prior to 5.4, there was a gcd delay to use spell reflect because you had to swap weapons. That's a good thing because it gives a caster the opportunity to see the Warriors shield and stop casting. Now Warriors have no delay, which means they just wait till the last mili second of a cast and hit the button. The caster won't have time to stop casting because the spell will go off and its highly dependent on latency

    Hamstring needs to be put back on a 1.0 second gcd. Why? Because it promotes mindless Colossus Smash, Slam x3 gameplay from the Warrior. If Hamstring was back on the gcd, Warriors would use Overpower more to save Rage and gcd time. That's how it was prior to 5.4. Slam wasn't used because it dumped rage and had no effect on MS. Now all of those things don't matter anymore because Slam does retarded amounts of damage during CS, that's there's no reason to use Overpower at all. And I don't want to hear "But DK/Monk/Rogue/Feral slows are better than Warriors so Warriors should be equal." Again, no. Different classes different resource mechanics. Warriors have a near 100% uptime against most classes now anyway. Which leads me to my next point.

    My last nerf which I know I'll get a ton of backlash for is to nerf Juggernaut to a 15 second cool down, Warbringer to 22 seconds and Double Time to 24 seconds. I would also like to add that the Glyph of Heroic Leap should be removed and replaced with a glyph the reduces the cool down on charge by 3 seconds. I guess people would say its a "huge" mobility nerf but I think that with the current state of Warrior damage it needs to happen. Warriors have way too much uptime against casters for the amount of damage they do. They even have the luxury of a 30 second fear break. Do DK's/Ferals/Rets/Monks have that? Nope, but I guess Warriors should have an equal level slow to these classes...

    The mobility nerfs would make Piercing Howl much more viable and possibly chosen over Disrupting Shout. That is the intention. One last thing is that they need to fix the Intimidating Shout "bug" that lets the Warrior Dps you for 3 seconds while being stuck in the fear. That shit needs to break on damage instantly and on Bleeds. That'll teach the Warrior not to mindlessly mash thunderclap. If they can't fix this "bug" (Probably intended), they need to put Intimidating Shout back on a three minute cool down. Getting smashed by the Warrior in a 3 second fear and then smashed again in a four second Shockwave/Stormbolt stun no dr isn't fair at all. It's literally close to 5.0 levels when the Warrior could charge stun you, gag order you into a shockwave.

    I could go on forever but I'll stop now. If you've read this far, thanks. Even if you hate what's written here, thanks anyway. Post your issues with this post or Warriors in general below and maybe I'll get back to them if I feel like it. Hopefully I don't get banned before I decide to respond.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    There are a lot of complaints already about warriors, they are just spread out over the various PvP topics... and each one has an aspect of what you mentioned.

    Unfortunately, the way I see it is this expac is done and, in my opinion, the worst ever for PvP. I was actually talking to my friends last night about this, and even though PvP was broken at 60, I had more fun back then then I do now. Yeah it was dumb and 1 shot gibs were everywhere, but around the mid point, every class had its own little niche and could have fun. Unlike now, where it seems FOTM rules each wave of patches and some classes just aren't viable.

    Anyways, my point is I'm done hoping they fix PvP right now and I still do it because *sometimes* it's fun. It'll never be balanced in MoP because of how Blizzard treated it. There are band aid fixes all over the place that usually end up getting removed or changed because it just breaks something else. I'm hopeful for Blizzcon and any announcements with the next expac. I'm hoping item squish and the ugly way PvP was handled in MoP will give them some better insight.
    "Clearly every aspect of one's life, from financial stability to social popularity, to sexual prowess can be boiled down to 4 numbers: One's Arena rating" ~ Xandamere

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    Not requiring shields and stance dancing has taken a lot of the skill needed to play a warrior away.
    they made them retard-proof, just like they did with huntards

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Illiterate View Post
    they made them retard-proof, just like they did with huntards
    You know, people keep saying how easy it is to play a hunter. If that's the case, why are there so many bad hunters out there? The rare times I go PvPing, I go right for the hunters. Most of them drop like a sack of potatoes.

  6. #6
    Welcome to the same thing that happens at the end of literally every expansion.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I'm surprised nobody on these forums have made a thread about the absurd state of Warriors. I guess everyone here is okay with this brainless class mashing a skilless rotation with little to no resource system while mindlessly funneling what seems like endless amounts of control, interrupts and gap closers all on short cool downs and no resource requirements. I have no idea why Blizzard would buff Warrior damage, utility and mobility all in one patch. There have literally been more Warrior buffs in 5.4 alone than if you compare the whole wotlk and cataclysm expansions combined.

    I knew ahead of time that Buffing Slam, Mortal Strike, Deep Wounds, Bladestorm, Sweeping Strikes were bad ideas. Arms did respectable damage in 5.3 for a class that easily has the best gap closers and raw defensive capability that they have. The only thing I thought needed to happen was a buff to Colossus Smash's ArP to 60% as Warriors were lacking against mail and plate targets. But I guess pve happened and Blizzard wanted to make Arms competitive in pve so they buffed Slam by 25% and added a bonus 10% buff against targets affected by Colossus Smash. They added a bunch of cleave buffs to Sweeping Strikes and buffed Bladestorms damage to the point that it literally feels like Wotlk levels again except at least in LK Bladestorm had a 90 second cool down. They need to put the disarm effect on the shit asap because there's literally no counter against Bladestorm if you play certain unfortunate classes.

    Speaking of retarded amounts of cleave damage, the buff to Deep Wounds (65% buff) and Thunderclap were completely unneeded but again, pve happened. Warriors literally deal more cleave damage than Unholy DK's and like Unholy DK's, the damage is completely easy to spread. Thunderclap costs only 10 rage because they for no reason decided to buff seasoned soldier that it now reduces the rage cost of Clap. Thanks pve. At least other classes like Hunters received heavy amounts of utility nerfs to compensate for their retarded pve buffs. Same thing should've happened to Warriors.

    If they literally just buffed the utility and left damage alone, nobody would be complaining about Arms. I guess the only complaints would be the typical "defensive stance/second wind" qq from people who've never played a Warrior or don't know what they're talking about. But those would fade over time when people got 522 gear because that's what it'll be balanced around. Warriors have 25% passive reduction because they have no ability to control their health bar outside of Rallying Cry which doesn't really even "heal" but I guess it does if you look at it from a different perspective. I understand passive reductions are skillless but that's how the Warrior class is designed. It's just the nature of the beast and people have to accept that Warriors are going to have this type of survivability to counter the fact that they have no real "heal" ability.

    Anyway, the changes that need to happen to Warriors are basically reverts to their utility buffs. Blizzard isn't going to nerf their damage. It will affect pve and it just isn't going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if they change nothing with Warrior entirely, as they've just buffed Fury damage (pve) without any changes to utility. Basically the intervene buff needs to be reverted, that way Warriors will be forced to spec into Safeguard eliminating the fact that they have access to two INSANT reflects that cost literally no resources.

    The next thing they need to do is put shield requirements back on. I know this far fetched as its probably not going to happen but I believe it needs to happen. Warriors shouldn't be allowed to deal normal damage during Shield Wall. Shield Wall should be an ability that helps the Warrior survive but forces him to lose his pressure. It's freaking on a three minute cool down. It needs a Draw back. And I don't want to hear how ferals, DK's, Rogues or whatever class can deal pressure during defensive cool downs. Those are different classes with different sets of advantages and disadvantages. To claim that since Rogues can dps normally through combat Readiness so Warriors should be able to during Shield Wall is absurd.

    Another reason for the shield Requirements to be put back on is to help casters be able to juke a spell reflect. Prior to 5.4, there was a gcd delay to use spell reflect because you had to swap weapons. That's a good thing because it gives a caster the opportunity to see the Warriors shield and stop casting. Now Warriors have no delay, which means they just wait till the last mili second of a cast and hit the button. The caster won't have time to stop casting because the spell will go off and its highly dependent on latency

    Hamstring needs to be put back on a 1.0 second gcd. Why? Because it promotes mindless Colossus Smash, Slam x3 gameplay from the Warrior. If Hamstring was back on the gcd, Warriors would use Overpower more to save Rage and gcd time. That's how it was prior to 5.4. Slam wasn't used because it dumped rage and had no effect on MS. Now all of those things don't matter anymore because Slam does retarded amounts of damage during CS, that's there's no reason to use Overpower at all. And I don't want to hear "But DK/Monk/Rogue/Feral slows are better than Warriors so Warriors should be equal." Again, no. Different classes different resource mechanics. Warriors have a near 100% uptime against most classes now anyway. Which leads me to my next point.

    My last nerf which I know I'll get a ton of backlash for is to nerf Juggernaut to a 15 second cool down, Warbringer to 22 seconds and Double Time to 24 seconds. I would also like to add that the Glyph of Heroic Leap should be removed and replaced with a glyph the reduces the cool down on charge by 3 seconds. I guess people would say its a "huge" mobility nerf but I think that with the current state of Warrior damage it needs to happen. Warriors have way too much uptime against casters for the amount of damage they do. They even have the luxury of a 30 second fear break. Do DK's/Ferals/Rets/Monks have that? Nope, but I guess Warriors should have an equal level slow to these classes...

    The mobility nerfs would make Piercing Howl much more viable and possibly chosen over Disrupting Shout. That is the intention. One last thing is that they need to fix the Intimidating Shout "bug" that lets the Warrior Dps you for 3 seconds while being stuck in the fear. That shit needs to break on damage instantly and on Bleeds. That'll teach the Warrior not to mindlessly mash thunderclap. If they can't fix this "bug" (Probably intended), they need to put Intimidating Shout back on a three minute cool down. Getting smashed by the Warrior in a 3 second fear and then smashed again in a four second Shockwave/Stormbolt stun no dr isn't fair at all. It's literally close to 5.0 levels when the Warrior could charge stun you, gag order you into a shockwave.

    I could go on forever but I'll stop now. If you've read this far, thanks. Even if you hate what's written here, thanks anyway. Post your issues with this post or Warriors in general below and maybe I'll get back to them if I feel like it. Hopefully I don't get banned before I decide to respond.
    Stopped at bold text, laughed, kept reading, laughed more. You want literally everything nerfed. Our dmg, our tool kit, our mobility, our CC, everything. Plus you seem pro homogenization, which is terrible for any game, but even more so for an mmo. Arms got buffs out the ass because they were shit in PVE, and low tier in pvp most of the expansion. Its the game design. Buff/nerf roulette. It keeps emotional people like you subbed. Now you'll stay subbed so one day you'll be "OP" to get revenge on those stinky warriors! Welcome to WoW btw!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Arms did respectable damage in 5.3
    Stopped reading there, i couldn't take you seriously for the rest on.

    Warrior's damage was SO bad last patch that i was forced to stop playing my warrior and start pvping on my dk/ret/lock/ww monk. Idk what your are on, but warrior damage in patch 5.3 is UNACCEPTABLE. Also i read in the wow forums that w/o deep wounds, MS, BS, SS buffs, warriors would be DEAD LAST in the damage charts (speaking pve POV), so honestly we did need a buff.

    In addition to what i said about damage, my warrior is currently in 2k rating in 3's, quite frankly i am actually doing OK damage, i mean i can be pretty bursty at some point but the people i face know what they are doing and they can control me quite well even with our utility buffs.

    TL;DR: Warriors really needed a damage buff, but ill admit the intervene buff was uncalled for, and i wish they can let us use w/e shield we want in place of the animated shield whats automatically put on us when we pop shield wall/reflect.

  9. #9
    I am Murloc! Baracuda's Avatar
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    Not sure if you even play a warrior. I say they need to go further with the rage system and modernize it. If they go back to the stone age with shield requirements I'll probably bench WoW permanently, it wasn't fun in TBC and it wasn't fun last patch. Let warriors always ignore like 20% armor to help against heavy armor like you mentioned. Reduce overpower's rage cost to make it viable and reduce dmg overall, ruining the mechanics is not the solution and the talents/glyphs are boring enough as it is... don't make it worse. Forcing us to take safeguard isn't the solution either btw either you nerf mass reflect or you buff the other two.

    Quote Originally Posted by zenyatta View Post
    You know, people keep saying how easy it is to play a hunter. If that's the case, why are there so many bad hunters out there? The rare times I go PvPing, I go right for the hunters. Most of them drop like a sack of potatoes.
    Removing the dead zone was the first step, although I think that was necessary. What truly removed most skill was letting them do all attacks while moving.
    Last edited by Baracuda; 2013-09-24 at 08:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  10. #10
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    Oh damn, did the gauntlet of "bitch about a class for a patch" pass from hunters to warriors? If so I vote we have a party in the hunter forum.

  11. #11
    Playing the worlds smallest violin for you

  12. #12
    *scratches head*

    Weren't people whinging about how warriors were vastly underpowered these days? (I haven't but I do find it odd that in practice a mage can tank MORE damage than a warrior can)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I'm surprised nobody on these forums have made a thread about the absurd state of Warriors. I guess everyone here is okay with this brainless class mashing a skilless rotation with little to no resource system while mindlessly funneling what seems like endless amounts of control, interrupts and gap closers all on short cool downs and no resource requirements. I have no idea why Blizzard would buff Warrior damage, utility and mobility all in one patch. There have literally been more Warrior buffs in 5.4 alone than if you compare the whole wotlk and cataclysm expansions combined.
    Stopped reading where bold. This guy doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. Next paycheck says he doesn't even play Warrior. GTFO of here man.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by zenyatta View Post
    You know, people keep saying how easy it is to play a hunter. If that's the case, why are there so many bad hunters out there? The rare times I go PvPing, I go right for the hunters. Most of them drop like a sack of potatoes.
    are you trying to base an argument around playing against bots in randoms?

  15. #15
    I REALLY miss my BC/Wrath warrior.
    Signature

  16. #16
    Sounds like this guy got bukkake'd on by warriors in arena... Nothing to see here people, move along lmfao.

  17. #17
    Whats your problem? If there is a mindless post about how little skill it takes to play a warrior suprise suprise its Ryan. Seriously dude just get over it, if you cant handle warriors dont play. You got farmed by a warrior, we get it.

  18. #18
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    Not requiring shields and stance dancing has taken a lot of the skill needed to play a warrior away.
    Stance dancing is no way fun or compelling gameplay. It's just dumb.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  19. #19
    Anyone who's done arena/RBG's since 5.4 hit knows that DK's are way better then Arms is at the moment in pretty much everyway including raw damage.

    Hell, two of the highest rated DK's in 2's are playing BLOOD right now, a tank spec, and mopping kids.

  20. #20
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
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    This just in, some pvper who gets his ass kicked demands nerfs rather than finding a way to beat a class film at 11.
    "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one who inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it." - Mark Twain

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