[PvP]Warrior reflecting my HoJ 80% of the time?

[Thundertom]

*Please read further comments in this thread before coming with the "OP got owned in BGs and reported cheater because he's butthurt"*
So I entered this random battleground yesterday on my Holy Paladin, for shits and giggles, and I ended up being the only healer in a WSG.

We meet this team who roflstomped us and ended up GY camping us. I managed to get past it a few times and be greeted by a warrior in, what I think judging by the amount of damage he did was geared in part Prideful gear.

I can usually outheal warriors okay, as most of them cannot play perfect, using my HoJ and other stuff when I get in trouble, but this one was different. He seemed to manage to reflect 80% of my HoJ's.

I'm reading these forums a lot, and I've read about cheating stuff that lets you instantly auto reflect or interrupt spells. I think the times he didn't manage to reflect it was when his SR was on cooldown.

I ended up reporting him for cheating. Was this a wrong call? Could he predict when I cast HoJ, maybe by my movement pattern or something, for instance I subconsciously always start running away, cast HoJ, Freedom and sprint? Seems far fetched, I know lol. Is there a way to be sure he was cheating? It just felt wrong.

What happens when I report someone for cheating?

*edit*
Just to clarify a couple of things;
- He seemed to play poorly otherwise, usually I can be killed by a skilled warrior, but this one did poor damage.
- He didn't kill me, he ran away when I got him to 30-ish% (this took a while, Denounce, HShock and Prism)
- I am not one to report when I get outplayed, this one didn't seem to play particular well, so his reflect skills seemed exceptional for someone with otherwise average skills. I don't hit the "cheater" button often. In fact, this is the first time in my WoW career I have reported someone for cheating. Did I make the right choice? I don't know, that's what I'm trying to find out.
- If your reply is something along the lines of "OP is butthurt because he got outplayed and therefore reported as cheater" you may have to re-read this thread and some of the comments made.

[Illana]

Probably using a bot to reflect yes, these things exist everywhere and it's barely regulated by blizz.

[DemoBytom]

What's HoJ?

[Shisui-kun]

If you walk up to a shaman or warrior you can expect it to get reflected/grounded. Fake your HoJ and use it after he reflects.

[AeneasBK]

What's HoJ?

Hammer of Justice.

Do Holydins not have exorcism to soak the spell reflect? Thats what I use as ret to counter herpderp gonna reflect your HoJ warriors...

- - - Updated - - -

If you walk up to a shaman or warrior you can expect it to get reflected/grounded. Fake your HoJ and use it after he reflects.

How do you fake HoJ?

[Thundertom]

If you walk up to a shaman or warrior you can expect it to get reflected/grounded. Fake your HoJ and use it after he reflects.

How can you fake HoJ?

What's HoJ?

Sorry, I figured this was common lingo;Hand of Justice, Paladin stun, instant cast.

- - - Updated - - -

Hammer of Justice.

Do Holydins not have exorcism to soak the spell reflect? Thats what I use as ret to counter herpderp gonna reflect your HoJ warriors...

Holydins don't have Exo, or I'm a noob and doing it wrong (very possible btw lol)

[Thundertom]

Denounce is what Imp Exo was last expac, pretty much the same thing, wouldn't say it's the best way to kill a Spell Reflect but I haven't PvP'd as a H paladin for years.

I used denounce a lot, but he didn't reflect any of those. He managed to cherry pick HoJs.

[Illana]

I used denounce a lot, but he didn't reflect any of those. He managed to cherry pick HoJs.

well that's not difficult as denounce has a cast time

but yeah it's most likely a botting program that reflects certain spells for him

[Shisui-kun]

For the people asking how you fake a HoJ: Don't use it straight away while walking 20 yards for your opponent so they can anticipate your HoJ? Just like you wouldn't use PS on a druid straight away unless you know that he can't/won't displacer beast out of your fear radius?

Edit: Or for that matter growling grounding so a grounding totem is less likely to eat your trap.

[morislayer]

He might have had a legit add on letting him know HoJ CD was up. If that was the case, he might have hit spell reflect right as the CD was coming up.

[wxcopy]

Most likely an illegal interrupt addon doing it, you can't fake it.

[Anzen]

I'd say he probably wasn't cheating for a couple of reasons.

1.) Movement Patterns
Because Hammer of Justice is vastly range limited (10/20 yards), it becomes extremely predictable when it's about to happen. If I ever see a Paladin start running towards me, 90% of the time it's because he wants to HoJ me (same as priests with PS). This makes it extremely easy to predict and use a cooldown for. If you find yourself suddenly turn around and start running at people to HoJ them, then you can expect it to get countered. Try not to use HoJ predictably.

2.) Addons
There are addons that show CD's on enemy spells (I use Icicles for example, it shows enemy cooldowns above their name plates). If a Warrior see's HoJ is just about to come off CD whilst he's tunneling you, it would be pretty obvious for him to just pop Spell Reflect as he see's it come up. Try not to use HoJ religiously on CD.

3.) Other patterns.
The only other obvious time to HoJ someone other than off CD, would be if you was about to die. He may be pre-emptively SR'ing in case you tried to HoJ him to prevent death. Whilst this is good play by the Warrior, you could Holy Shock/Holy Prism him to knock off the SR then HoJ him.

4.) Cheating
Finally, there is the obvious. He may have just been cheating. Not much you can do about this, a lot of bots are able to counter spells in completely unrealistic times and so I can't really say there's any way to avoid it.

If you feel you did the above 3 points, then he was probably cheating/lucky.

That said, I doubt Blizzard would do anything about it.

I would look at how you HoJ people, track Spell Reflect more efficiently and work on knocking it off reliably.

[Illana]

it's a warrior, he's likely to be training him so will always be in range.

[Lithix]

Most likely an illegal interrupt addon doing it, you can't fake it.

Just like you cant fake interrupt....

As a warrior, when i see a priest, druid or paladin coming up to me, i know the only reason they are coming towards me is because they want to do something in range of me, its not hard to think why.

Anyways, he could have been a good warrior or he could have been a bot abuser.

[Deleted]

It's quite easy to predict when someone is gonna HoJ if I'm honest;
if you're at 50% and trying to jump away from me I will probably reflect in hope you HoJ
if you don't have bubble (forbearance) and you drop below 50%, same again
if I pop swifty, I usually bladestorm straight after in hopes of getting the HoJ

As someone said, he could've been cheating, but I've played games versus paladins and reflected 4 or 5 HoJs so after awhile it does get predictable. The best one is when I charge, 9 times out of 10 the Holy Pala will HoJ because he thinks he'll stun me and I won't have anything to get to him (save leap, presuming he'd use freedom anyway) whereas... Yeah reflect.

<3

[Sliske]

There are addons that show the cooldown of your own cooldowns above your nameplate.

I literally reflect HoJ more times than I don't. It is glaringly obvious when paladins who don't focus HoJ are about to HoJ you. For example a holy paladin has to click you, then press his HoJ. So you have 1 second or less or less to react and press SR. More than enough time.

Ret is even easier. The vast majority of them run at you, Judgement and then HoJ.

It is like flaring on top of a stunned rogue. It is just an obvious stereotypical noob play for them to trinket and try to vanish.

[Thundertom]

I get that when someone sees me trying to get in melee range desperately they're pretty much excepting me to HoJ however this warrior was in melee range the whole damn time and I was standing still , because I was trying to figure out whether he was cheating or not. I didn't use HoJ on cd either. Plus I used denounce as much as possible in between and unless I needed it to heal me using prism and shock offensively. He sucked at interrupting anything and let me free cast heals.

[Fugus]

I get that when someone sees me trying to get in melee range desperately they're pretty much excepting me to HoJ however this warrior was in melee range the whole damn time and I was standing still , because I was trying to figure out whether he was cheating or not. I didn't use HoJ on cd either. Plus I used denounce as much as possible in between and unless I needed it to heal me using prism and shock offensively. He sucked at interrupting anything and let me free cast heals.

He was cheating with a bot, they actually have programs that are automated to perfectly counter them. It reads what you did and puts up the counter faster than humanly possible and actually did a front run around you. Kinda like how the US stock market works now with HFT.

[cevaps]

There's NO cheat exist that can reflect instant spell... Interrupt/Reflect cheating means bot reacts in 0.01 seconds after you start casting. They have to see you're casting something, they're not a fortune teller that can predict when you're gonna use an instant spell. And as you know reflect doesn't work after you cast an instant spell. So... yes, you reported the wrong guy.

[villie]

There's NO cheat exist that can reflect instant spell... Interrupt/Reflect cheating means bot reacts in 0.01 seconds after you start casting. They have to see you're casting something, they're not a fortune teller that can predict when you're gonna use an instant spell. And as you know reflect doesn't work after you cast an instant spell. So... yes, you reported the wrong guy.

Utter and complete bollocks mate, the reason it is possible is the HoJ animation has a infinitesimally small travel time, like dks mind freeze, and is classed as a spell, add server lag and the fact that HoJ is on the GCD and Spell Reflect is not the addon actually 0.5s on average to react when Hoj is cast and hits the combat log before it lands.

Its the exact same process as cloaking a deathcoil or Neilyoing the deathcoil, its just impossible for human reaction times to achieve bar fluke.

Look at your combat log next time, if the reflect occurs within 0.1secs of you casting a HoJ more than 3 times, report him as i don't care what anyone says hes fucking cheating or he is telepathic.