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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by hakujinbakasama View Post
    You are completely correct, my apologizes.
    I did point out that a few of those steps are able to be short cut a little. You didn't need flying with a warlock but that would mean that warlocks needed flying. Base flying wasn't extremely difficult but did require some work.
    Warlock summoning was disabled in the entire zone of Netherstorm until patch 2.4.

  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire NickCageFanatic's Avatar
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    And this is exactly why attunements are gone!!!

    I will admit that I don't mind an attunement for a single raid in an expansion. I think it could be a lot of fun building up a nice story getting into the raid, but I feel Blizzard would just turn into go here and grab X go there and kill Y then go over there and speak to Z then you can enter.

  3. #23
    You know what I've found hilarious all xpac ...

    "Bring back attunements !" / "Legendary cape chain is too convoluted but it's mandatory for progress !"

    Blizz can just not win. Every single decision has a disgruntled vocal minority screaming their heads off on the forums about how it's the worst thing ever. Some folks demanding a higher barrier to entry and mandatory progression through old content, other folks demanding the exact opposite. Not asking for, not presenting arguments for ... demanding.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    Warlock summoning was disabled in the entire zone of Netherstorm until patch 2.4.
    Completely true, something else missed/forgotten.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alocin View Post
    And this is exactly why attunements are gone!!!

    I will admit that I don't mind an attunement for a single raid in an expansion. I think it could be a lot of fun building up a nice story getting into the raid, but I feel Blizzard would just turn into go here and grab X go there and kill Y then go over there and speak to Z then you can enter.
    I agree, the TBC Attunements could get convoluted. That didn't make the concept bad though. I really believe that the Karazhan Attunement was good. I also believe that at the time, having to do Heroics was a good gate. It forced players to participate if they wanted to raid, and due to design, it also forced them to become better at their class.

    It meant that if you had your Attunements, you probably knew what the hell your were doing. I still think this should be applied again. I don't think it should be account wide either... more so now with Purchased 90's or free boosts from WoD.

    Just because I know one character doesn't mean I can cut it with another, and before I'm in wasting 9-29 other players time (because I've been selected completely off of gear alone) maybe I should have to do SOME actual leg work to know what the hell to do with that character/class.

    The subtext to wanting "Hard Heroics" again, even if it is more perspective and dated than people would like to acknowledge, is because Hard Heroics shoe horned people into performance and learning. That meant that people, by the time they got into t4, knew how their class worked, knew how to cc or avoid cc, knew how to heal, and knew how to dps, tank, and all the aspects of threat.
    Last edited by hakujinbakasama; 2014-05-07 at 05:17 PM.

  5. #25
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    ah man , good memories, great times. i absolutely loved doing all those attunements, they gave feeling of progression and accomplishment. heroic dungeons being locked behind rep grind, that i dont miss, but epic quest chains ,tossing you all over the world , great fun.

  6. #26
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    I kinda miss them. It keep the noobs out of hard raids.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Rereading that made my head ache. Not because it wasn't laid out well. The layout was impeccable. It just brought back memories of having to slog through all that crap whenever we got poached by a Kael/Vashj guild and tried to get people reattuned for TK/SSC.
    Well said hahaha
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by fixx View Post

    Mount Hyjal:
    - Vashj and Kael were ridiculously overtuned, much harder than 2/3 of the whole next tier of MH/BT
    But so rewarding if you managed to kill one or both of them pre 2.4.0

    Sure, heroics and raids were hard in TBC, but they had the one important thing that made them so popular, fun.

    Edit: Back then, guilds judged their progress not by how much loot they got that night or how many bosses they killed, but by how much of a percentage increase they got the current problem boss down that night.
    Last edited by Laerrus; 2014-05-07 at 05:35 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Laerrus View Post
    But so rewarding if you managed to kill one or both of them pre 2.4.0

    Sure, heroics and raids were hard in TBC, but they had the one important thing that made them so popular, fun.
    This was my bitch about Cata. There was such a build up that heroics were going to return to the TBC era of difficulty. I don't know where that difficulty was but I didn't see it.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Also..if you didn't feel they were overbearing, I guess you were late? LV and KT initially only dropped 4 quest items per kill. That means at least 6 weeks of kills for both guys to attune the core raiders. I swear with people whining about the 6000 VP part of the legendary quest nowadays, that kind of artificial gating would go down reeeaaalllly well.
    Fyi by the time Kael'thas ever got killed(when BT was actually released in 2.1), he and Vashj were dropping vials for everyone in the raid.

  11. #31
    I am Murloc! Descense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakujinbakasama View Post
    This was my bitch about Cata. There was such a build up that heroics were going to return to the TBC era of difficulty. I don't know where that difficulty was but I didn't see it.
    Eh cata heroics were a joke. You didnt even need CC.

    For example..... in tbc you had too sheep one orc or the tank was one shot instantly .

  12. #32
    I liked TBC a lot, I liked long quest chains, However, I disliked those attunements a lot. For me they were the dark side of TBC.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    ...so I supply the picture version





    Not so much getting poached here, but people being drama queens and quitting when we were learning Illidan. The fun to go back and attune new people. Not.
    Look at all the content that was available for a player. Every one of those represented a goal for someone to achieve and it represented progression for their character.

    Make something like that for current expansions, but make it an account wide attunement, and allow the raid attuenemnts to be done in normal flex mode to gain access to the next tier, and you have a winning formula.
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  14. #34
    I don't mind little things, like the quest to get the Key for Shattered Halls. That felt pretty cool to be a person that took that extra time and effort.

  15. #35
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    Ooh the memories
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  16. #36
    you forgot that summoning nightbane wasnt an easy task back then, http://www.wowwiki.com/Nightbane_quest_chain

    i mean shit, one of the req was heroic shattered halls, screw that place, as a shadowpriest i was lucky to be invited to a SH heroic group.
    Rejoice, For very bad things are about to happen...

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by hakujinbakasama View Post
    It meant that if you had your Attunements, you probably knew what the hell your were doing. I still think this should be applied again. I don't think it should be account wide either... more so now with Purchased 90's or free boosts from WoD.
    It meant no such thing. Attunements required zero personal effort. They were merely a reflection of how much work a guild had put into that character, and not necessarily the guild that character wound up raiding with either. A recruit could be and usually was carried the entire way through the network by people who had already done it fifty times and were not happy about the fifty-first time, especially knowing that the effort would be rewarded with poaching, as it was the last fifty times.

    Increased server population is not something that would solve that problem. The only thing that would would be to make attunements guild-bound. Which is what they ultimately wound up doing with tier 14. It was not received well.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Look at all the content that was available for a player. Every one of those represented a goal for someone to achieve and it represented progression for their character.

    Make something like that for current expansions, but make it an account wide attunement, and allow the raid attuenemnts to be done in normal flex mode to gain access to the next tier, and you have a winning formula.
    I don't personally agree with account wide. With LFD, LFR, Flex, Cross Realm, and the new group finder system, there isn't an arbitrary cap on getting this stuff done on a character. What I don't like about the Attunement system in a way was if you didn't have the quest done and you had to kill a target, you had to go back and kill said target. This made it frustrating for some players who didn't know all the details and paths a head of time, which is a fault on Blizzard for their quest design more than the concept of Attunements.

  19. #39
    If you love that, go buy Wildstar Online - they have the same shit.
    This is what you have to do to enter the 20 man raid there:

    And you need to clear the 20 man to enter the 40 man.




  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    It meant no such thing. Attunements required zero personal effort. They were merely a reflection of how much work a guild had put into that character, and not necessarily the guild that character wound up raiding with either. A recruit could be and usually was carried the entire way through the network by people who had already done it fifty times and were not happy about the fifty-first time, especially knowing that the effort would be rewarded with poaching, as it was the last fifty times.

    Increased server population is not something that would solve that problem. The only thing that would would be to make attunements guild-bound. Which is what they ultimately wound up doing with tier 14. It was not received well.
    Think you're talking about extremes. Since Heroics were required to get even the foot in the door, there wasn't a lot of carrying. If you "sucked" you were kicked. I don't know how many guilds put up with people not taking, not healing, and not dpsing in 5 mans just to carry them all the way through raiding content to begin with. Let's also not forget that at the initial, you had to do questing and normals and dailies to get to revered before you could do heroics.

    That's a hell of a lot of work with NO ONE noticing that who ever is with them isn't playing.

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