1. #1

    Popularity contest(raid class "balance~")


    ^Sheet is a little old but still "close"^
    More details
    Interpreted Data

    Maybe Shamans are just to popular atm for the changes we have been asking for. In a perfectly even world each of the 11 classes would make up about 9% of any given statistical population whereas shamans are around 11.5% of the PvE population(6/14H+) and 12.5% in PvP(1800+).

    Even though shamans seem to be successful enough to be popular in late game activities they are unfortunately not very balanced "within" the class. In the loosely defined(6/14H+) "high end" PvE bracket about 54% of the shamans are Ele and in 1800+ PvP about 55% of shamans are resto. But I think you will find shamans are not at all alone in this...
    I made a couple of little spreadsheets in an effort to show off the PvE numbers.

    It might help you to think of it like "23 of every 100 tanks are prot paladins".
    ________________________________________________________________


    I wish I had found 10vs25 statistics since I assume the Blizz Devs are expecting larger average raid sizes to have an impact on these types of numbers in PvE. I am looking forward to keeping track of these stats when all "high end" raiding is 20man as the numbers will be truer then with only one standard.


    Well I had a bunch of fun looking at this stuff and playing with numbers I hope some of you guys enjoy it as well :]
    I am Çhubathingy of [A]<Royal Militia> on KT - 14/14H, US22 10m, we are recruiting all classes for WoD!

  2. #2
    Moderator Blithe's Avatar
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    I enjoyed PvE as Elemental because of the multiple Lava Bursts firing out of my hands, and Chain Lightning making me look like Zeus. This could be why other players enjoy it, too. It's also in a good state, being at the middle of the pack.

    I enjoyed PvP as Restoration because you have amazing synergy with a lot of classes and work well in compositions that are composed of a melee and ranged class, which are a lot more fun than Melee or Wizard Cleaves (double melee or double ranged). Mastery also works amazingly well in PvP, where as it's somewhat lackluster in PvE.
    Quote Originally Posted by MurlocWarlock View Post
    If you just love being that guy that purposely, or accidentally carries out the action of "letting them win", roll a shaman, and get a FREE vacation to the Ashran Graveyard with scenic tombstones and a magnificent sunset view of your faction hiding in the bubble as DKS, hunters and Treesus Christ roflstomp your base, and all you have to do is call this number!
    SHA-MAN-SUCK (742-626-7825)

  3. #3
    That's somewhat hard to interpret. Shaman have three viable specs that have utility unique than other classes. To compare the shaman class as a whole to a Mage or rogue class would be unfair. The raid doesn't gain true "benefit" by having one frost Mage, one fire Mage, and one arcane Mage like they do for resto, enhancement, and elemental (you could also fill in Druids, monks, priests, etc. who are also high on class representation).

    Class representation may not be the criteria we look at, but instead actual performance statistics. Obviously not entirely plausible for PVP but it could be an analysis tool for PVE interpretation.

  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk matheney2k's Avatar
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    I'm such a hipster... I saw monks are basically last on every category and I instantly wanted to level mine up..God help me..

  5. #5
    There are way more enhancement shamans roaming around than I would have expected.

  6. #6
    Moderator Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    I'm such a hipster... I saw monks are basically last on every category and I instantly wanted to level mine up..God help me..
    It's okay, as Windwalker you're pretty much able to solo anyone, and you're also the meta this season. Brewmaster's also quite strong in PvE.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    There are way more enhancement shamans roaming around than I would have expected.
    They were close to the bottom until 5.3 gave them some nice scaling buffs.
    Quote Originally Posted by MurlocWarlock View Post
    If you just love being that guy that purposely, or accidentally carries out the action of "letting them win", roll a shaman, and get a FREE vacation to the Ashran Graveyard with scenic tombstones and a magnificent sunset view of your faction hiding in the bubble as DKS, hunters and Treesus Christ roflstomp your base, and all you have to do is call this number!
    SHA-MAN-SUCK (742-626-7825)

  7. #7
    Warchief Anzen's Avatar
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    Hybrids (with the exception of monks because they are newer to the game) will always be more popular than pure damage specs.

    I originally rolled my shaman purely because he was a hybrid and I liked the versatility of not having one set role.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Epistate View Post
    To compare the shaman class as a whole to a Mage or rogue class would be unfair.
    Yea I think it makes perfect sense for rogues to be the highest PvE melee and hunter/lock/rogue to be the top for ranged since they don't have the ability to heal/tank.
    I think the data points more to there inability to balance classes with a lot of different roles. Its also hard to trust the numbers all the way because a "shadow priest" could actually be a disc in surprise(it shows like 45% of priests in the group being shadow) since I'm pretty sure all these numbers come from data mining the armory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Epistate View Post
    Class representation may not be the criteria we look at, but instead actual performance statistics.
    I just think that class representation is definitely something that the Blues look at when balancing classes. You can look at it and say "hunters and locks are more popular than mages" and here mages are getting a "defensive" raid CD while hunters and locks stay relatively the same(with minor nerfs supposedly).
    At the same time the fact that they are taking away Dot snapshotting will probably make feral druids/afflic locks more desirable to play.

    I guess I should point out again that these are broad numbers. Those of us in the top couple hundred kills are going to be playing what ever gives our raid the best "XYZ" that will help us kill bosses, whether that is straight dmg(locks) or off healing(Shamans) or absorbs(disc..).

    I just like numbers :}
    I am Çhubathingy of [A]<Royal Militia> on KT - 14/14H, US22 10m, we are recruiting all classes for WoD!

  9. #9
    What is the conclusion being made here?

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk matheney2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesalia View Post
    What is the conclusion being made here?
    That it is interesting info? Why does there have to be some agenda at hand?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Chubathingy View Post
    I just think that class representation is definitely something that the Blues look at when balancing classes. You can look at it and say "hunters and locks are more popular than mages" and here mages are getting a "defensive" raid CD while hunters and locks stay relatively the same(with minor nerfs supposedly). At the same time the fact that they are taking away Dot snapshotting will probably make feral druids/afflic locks more desirable to play.
    Yeah, they publicly said the additional CD for mages was because they finally aimed at making that equal across specs -- and mages were actually short on CDs compared to the rest of the choices. (For the specific class of CDs, which I don't pretend to fully understand, but whatevs. The devs think that, so they acted on it.)

    They have also been pretty clear on twitter that dot snapshotting as a default thing is going because it is addon gameplay, not skill gameplay. That is, an insanely good player, or anyone who grabs an addon, does well with it. The addon is basically a "don't suck" button, and they are getting rid of those now. I fully approve of that.

    So, yeah, in general I think this is including class balance as a goal, but that is much more something they focus in the numbers phase rather than the mechanics phase. Other than fixing "things which are not fun", they are focused on making various specs feel like, well, the spec, different, and awesome. They address class balance with numbers, by eg nerfing BM 15 percent flat, or giving a buff to DPS DK, so that they help correct the imbalance of power, and generally aiming to buff low and nerf high representation classes.

  12. #12
    Currently, resto shamans are the most played alt class as everyone thinks you need one in your roster. And if the main shaman is not available, someone can just switch to his alt.

  13. #13
    Those numbers don't do anything to dispell stereotypes about dks. That's for sure.

    Anyways, its hard to tell if they balance off popularity because: what popularity are they looking at? Are they looking at Shaman being the least played class or are they looking at them being a very popular competitive class?

  14. #14
    Waaait a second, am I the only one who noticed, that the total numbers are not adding up?

    Anyways, cool to see this information. Liked it alot. good job

  15. #15
    Moderator Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazzorx View Post
    Those numbers don't do anything to dispell stereotypes about dks. That's for sure.

    Anyways, its hard to tell if they balance off popularity because: what popularity are they looking at? Are they looking at Shaman being the least played class or are they looking at them being a very popular competitive class?
    Shaman isn't popular per se, it's just competitive. It's in the bottom three of least played classes overtime. I'd opt for people only playing it because they need one for their raid, otherwise it wouldn't be such a popular alt, and even then, most of the Shaman population consists of veteran players from years ago, with most 'new' players having changed mains around the Cataclysm-Mists era.

    While it's speculative, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the actual case. Most of the people I know that still play the class have been here during the time period of Vanilla to Wrath, while most people I've known between the Cataclysm-Mists era have either jumped ship, or just played the class as their alts. Still, fascinating data.

    Second least played class (7.6%), above the Monk (6.1%) and below the Warlock (8.2%) on US realms: (http://wow.realmpop.com/us.html)
    Second least played class (8.1%), above the Monk (6.2%) and below the Warlock (8.2%) on EU realms: (http://wow.realmpop.com/eu.html)
    Quote Originally Posted by MurlocWarlock View Post
    If you just love being that guy that purposely, or accidentally carries out the action of "letting them win", roll a shaman, and get a FREE vacation to the Ashran Graveyard with scenic tombstones and a magnificent sunset view of your faction hiding in the bubble as DKS, hunters and Treesus Christ roflstomp your base, and all you have to do is call this number!
    SHA-MAN-SUCK (742-626-7825)

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