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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Xl House lX View Post
    Community. WoW has grown in a lot of ways over the years, but at the cost of small tight knit communities that, as you said, made the game feel more "alive". Things like LFD/LFG/LFR/cross-realm bgs/servers being tied together, etc. have all taken away from the community in favor of ideals such as ease-of-life improvements and other shallow things that cater to more casual players.

    And at this point in time that community feeling will likely never return to WoW. I realized that (and a lot of other things too) and thats why I am done with the game. I still find myself here for Diablo 3/Hearthstone stuff, but every time I see WoW related news I just don't really get excited. If anything, WoW at this point feels like WoW: 3 or something. The game really changed after the end of WotLK.

    I know people will say "rose-tinted glasses" or something, but WoW truly was more fun for me back in 2007 when it was just Vanilla and BC. Everything seemed like a challenge back then. Leveling was way more challenging than it is now, and was quite time consuming (no XP bonuses/no heirloom gear), and max level content wasn't just readily available to you. You had to prove yourself worthy of doing the endgame content. You had to show your guild/PuG's you had what it takes to keep up with their raiding group. And if you didn't had what it took it meant grinding more dungeons, which meant grinding more heroics until finally you could start gearing up in Kara to do Gruul/Magtheridon.

    And back then if you were raiding SSC/The Eye (can't think of the name, the one in Netherstorm)you were in a good guild. If you were doing Black Temple or Sunwell you were in the best guild (on your server of course). Now most all guilds are capable of accomplishing normal raids. Most are even capable of progressing a little bit on heroic raids it seems. There is no sense of "prestige" anymore in the game.

    Anyways, I'm rambling. I don't like WoW for what it is today, and I know that it will likely never be what it was. I think nothing lasts forever and that WoW is getting into it's final years as the most popular MMO (it'll still be around for a while but something new is going to come up, whether it's by Blizzard or not).

    But yeah. Those are my thoughts from from someone who played from the first half of 2007 to the late half of 2013.
    This is exactly why. Perfect response.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandapuncher View Post
    Quit the bitching, nothing in Cata was hard.
    Morhaime, Chilton, and others at Blizzard said otherwise. They would know, so stop it with the well-debunked bullshit, mkay?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  3. #123
    Brewmaster Constraint's Avatar
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    Of course it felt more alive, lol. Everyone who played then knows that - but it was a completely new experience. There weren't guides for everything, for dps, for rotations, for every boss - it was YOUR world, to do what you wanted. It wasn't dependent on perfect balance amongst every class. Now it's just.. stay to the beaten path. Do your pre-assigned damage/healing numbers. Receive your recolored gear based on which difficulty you're doing. Perform your extremely similar rotations. Key in your whole 6 talent "choices".

    TL;DR - imbalance was fun, the world was new, everyone in the world was new. Of course it felt more alive.

  4. #124
    Because Blizzard wasn't under fire from everyone and their mom about how steep the time investment is to participate in the main parts of the game. You never hear anyone say anymore that you have to have no life to play wow anymore. If anyone does say it anymore it's nothing more than trolling. There are guilds that raid once a week that have cleared heroic content. Now everything is basically a solo adventure with minimal effort on your part to have to put together a group for anything (that requires it) and you aren't tethered to an assigned schedule for the most part. By doing all of this and caving into the casuals, that I don't honestly think give a fuck about the genre, the game lost it's soul.

  5. #125
    Pit Lord Gerbert the's Avatar
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    The "community" pretty much all decided they had to be assholes/fail-trolls at all times. For many years now on my server you basically cannot use tradechat for what it's meant for unless you want 20 people jumping down your throat trying to tell you off for daring to use tradechat for anything but terrible attempts at trolling. Nobody can ask a question anymore, and god help you if you accidently spell something wrong. Everyone appears to think they have to be some kind of asshole-ish troll at all times to every person. The WoW community followed the natural progression of the internet...as in, everyone wants to be cool/funny/a dick, whether or not they have a talent for it. That is what ruined the WoW community to me, maybe if i was a 12 year old kid it wouldn't bother me as much...but the sad thing is most all of these fail trolls are usually adults.
    "【A Chinese viewpoint on the new version:MOP】
    since we have lived in a world filled with magic and beast and lots of culture,so it is reasonable to let all kinds of culture come into World of Warcraft
    Orc:black people Jazz
    Gorblin:Israel Jews (No offensive,Gorblins are good at making money,that's ture in my eyes)"

  6. #126
    Convenience comes at a cost. LFD, cross-realm pvp, lower raid sizes, LFR, all mechanisms to make engaging with the game easier, quicker, and with less hassle. At the same time they also diminish the community aspect of the game. I am not saying any of those things were bad additions to the game, I am saying they came at a cost.

    Rose tinted or not, I can say for certain I played with more people and knew more people on my server in Vanilla than I do today. Whether you think 40 man raids was a bad experience or not, at the very least you were forced to engage for 40+ people if you wanted to raid. I know I enjoyed it, guilds were much larger and much more active. Cross-realm pvp also pretty much killed that aspect of the game for me. Entering games against complete strangers was not really fun. My favorite aspect of pvp was going up against people you knew. Having that guy that made you stop everything you were doing and go after that, because that guy sucks. Having people level rogues just to gank a certain Warlord in Orgrimmar all day.

    So yes, its easier to raid, its quicker to pvp and those are all good things. But I don't know the people I am pvp'ing against, and I don't really care about them. Suddenly my entire goal is to make it as quick as possible, win or lose. I raid with 25 people in LFR, but I don't know them. I don't care about them. And I won't see them again. I am in a 10 man guild, because thats all I need, there is no reason to engage with anyone else outside those 10 people.

  7. #127
    Brewmaster Xisa's Avatar
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    Wrath of the Lich King was not "when the game was brand new".

    The Degradation of the game community began with LFG, when you got the ability to queue into instances with people from other servers who you would never meet again, and therefore no socialization. The further the game has gone in that direction, the less social it has become.

    It's the equivalent from being in a small town or small city where you know everyone, to a huge city where despite there being a ton of people, everyone is a stranger.
    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes
    Or should I?

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Xisa View Post
    Wrath of the Lich King was not "when the game was brand new".

    The Degradation of the game community began with LFG, when you got the ability to queue into instances with people from other servers who you would never meet again, and therefore no socialization. The further the game has gone in that direction, the less social it has become.
    LFD was added because, at that point in Wrath, almost no one was running heroic 5 mans. It just wasn't worth it, especially if they took any significant amount of time to assemble a group.

    Games that have tried to get away without an LFD since then have quickly added it. It's not optional, and really never was optional.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  9. #129
    There were not 29.904.381 servers to choose from when making a new character...
    Quote Originally Posted by Furkel View Post
    There's always, ALWAYS a "huge uproar" about anything Blizz does, usually from people who either don't entirely understand the thing they're complaining about, or refuse to acknowledge that most players are perfectly okay with the current state of affairs. Whenever people complain that they don't listen to feedback it mostly means "they don't listen to ME ME ME".
    My new signature. Thanks.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Sussex View Post
    I remember starting WoW in Nov 2004 with a bunch of people I played SWG (star wars galaxies) with back in 2003/early 2004.

    The world/game in general felt thriving and huge to me...even coming from another MMORPG..

    I'd say this feeling lasted from 2004-2007

    NOTE: I am not saying the game was BETTER OR WORSE, im just saying it felt more "alive", the game is far better now...to a gaming point of view...tons more things to do, tons more features....a lot more things fixed...many useless things now playable...i am not denying this fact

    Now when I log into the game I just feel like im walking around in a museum or something....the game just feels dead...even though theres MILLIONs of more subscribers...I wish I could explain it better but I guess you sort of have to be around MMORPGs a long time.


    I am not talking about inner guild communities...thats normal..im talking about the community as 1 entity...it seems dead. And please don't think your private raiding guild chatter/banter makes up for this....i am talking about server wide community here.
    More people on the ground the more interactions you'll have, feels more full. Even seeing people without communicating is stimulating in the sense you don't feel alone and it ain't so empty. It encourages social interaction regardless of a personal choice to not do so. Being on the ground in general requires more thinking and brain activity. Flying is incredibly mind numbing. Most of my memories come from earlier days of WoW when things were more robust and more ground activity. Since then it's changed into sitting in cities and flying, it's horrible. the way it's effected peoples decision making and interactions. So glad it's finally getting addressed.

  11. #131
    Brewmaster Xisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    LFD was added because, at that point in Wrath, almost no one was running heroic 5 mans. It just wasn't worth it, especially if they took any significant amount of time to assemble a group.

    Games that have tried to get away without an LFD since then have quickly added it. It's not optional, and really never was optional.
    It was certainly optional, it was just more convenient.

    It's like flying: It was a mistake, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. They have both caused irreparable damage to the game, and neither can be taken away because the lowest common denominator likes it too much.

    They are experimenting with removing flying from "progression" areas, and I'd like to see how it works. The sense of community that existed prior to patch 3.3 was pretty awesome.
    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes
    Or should I?

  12. #132
    This may have already been pointed out, but *maybe* because there were far fewer servers and there was only Kalimdor & Eastern Kingdoms... probably about 1/3rd of the size the world is now. And all of these people crammed into a much smaller area were walking around rather than flying and crashing my computer because Ironforge was way too crowded :P

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Wowalixi View Post
    Right, let's bring back enchanters who charged outrageous prices for their services, that you had to portal to in order to get your enchant done, and god forbid you need a rare enchant and the only three people on the server who can do it aren't responding in trade.

    Buying enchants on the AH is worlds better than it used to be.
    someone can't read. He just said buying them from the AH is amazing compared to running around. His point about it effecting the 'feeling of community' is still valid.

  14. #134
    Now:
    - You don't ever have to make friends with anyone (in an MMO) and can see all of the content), you never even have to be invited to a group (besides arenas)
    - Rewards from questing and 5 mans are worthless, since the stuff in LFR is much easier to obtain and requires little effort
    - You can afk almost any content outside of flex or higher modes of raiding
    - If someone ganks you, you go on the forums to complain about it
    - You can see everything in less than a week


    Back then:

    - You had to socialize, you likely needed help with at least *some* quests, and you likely made friends along the way and could help them with their quests
    - Rewards were much more rare, and you had a reason to grind out in some areas for a particular item you liked, even from stuff like questing
    - There was a level of accountabiity, you couldn't just afk content and get rewarded
    - If someone ganks you, you gank them back or ask a buddy for help
    - You never really ran out of content

  15. #135
    because the game was different and the world was smaller and everyone was typically around the same level with new players coming in all the time and lots of kind of obvious reasons idk why you didnt think of them yourself.

  16. #136
    New, fresh and lack of the toxic community present today.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Morhaime, Chilton, and others at Blizzard said otherwise. They would know, so stop it with the well-debunked bullshit, mkay?
    Oh, they said it was hard, you could also say that pushups are hard.

    It wasn't hard. Mkay, if it was "Hard" you had no friends to play with. I'm guessing you dont

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandapuncher View Post
    Oh, they said it was hard, you could also say that pushups are hard.

    It wasn't hard. Mkay, if it was "Hard" you had no friends to play with. I'm guessing you dont
    What is your definition of "hard", if I may ask? My definition is "too difficult for the audience it has". And Cataclysm's initial end game was definitely that. Chilton came out and said in the NY Times that attempting to make the game more hardcore failed (not just the way they attempted it, but the very idea of making it more hardcore.)

    It's etched in stone now at Blizzard that early Cataclysm was too hard. Example, recent tweet from Watcher:

    https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/statu...17718469001216

    "Honestly, by not overtuning our dungeons and entry-level raid content. That was a clear mistake in Cata."
    Last edited by Osmeric; 2014-05-13 at 12:41 AM.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Souflikar View Post
    New, fresh and lack of the toxic community present today.
    this and everyone literaly sucked at game at that time (and those who claim that they didnt suck just lie) - after few years of playing some players developed some really good skills and since nobody give fuck about those they decided that if they will treat eveyrone else like shit maybe someone will finally pay atention to them - nobody still does but they are not stopin, that' why all those "scrubs/retards" are flying in eveyr direction in lfr/flex

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    What is your definition of "hard", if I may ask? My definition is "too difficult for the audience it has". And Cataclysm's initial end game was definitely that. Chilton came out and said in the NY Times that attempting to make the game more hardcore failed (not just the way they attempted it, but the very idea of making it more hardcore.)

    It's etched in stone now at Blizzard that early Cataclysm was too hard. Example, recent tweet from Watcher:

    https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/statu...17718469001216

    "Honestly, by not overtuning our dungeons and entry-level raid content. That was a clear mistake in Cata."
    Yeah, early Cata was indeed challenging.

    Impossible? No, of course not. Especially if you had a strong premade group for dungeons the way many of us did. That doesn't change the fact that they were very difficult, objectively speaking.

    I think some people GREATLY inflate how hard TBC 5-mans were in their mind. Especially since all the community did was Slave Pens and Mechanar speed runs.

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