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  1. #1

    LFR : Thought Experiment

    I suspect this would remain a thought experiment, but it would be fun to watch.

    1. Find a pool of 200 Tanks, 600 Healers and 1700 Dps characters who are all 14/14H SoO
    2. Select at 'random' 2 Tanks, 6 Healers and 17 DPS (no two players can be from the same guild)
    3. Scale gear to 535 (aka challenge mode system).
    4. Run all four wings of SoO LFR in order (assume chance at significant incentive on completion)
    5. No vent/mumble, no guild chat, no pm - just raid chat. Each player has their normal addons.
    6. Randomly assign a leader
    7. Time the run, flag wipes (if any).
    8. Repeat 4-7 and keep the results.

    What do you think would happen? How well/fast do you think the LFRs would be cleared ?
    Would there be as much issue with leadership in this case, as in a normal LFR? Or more or less ?

  2. #2
    It would definately go faster than the ordinary LFR, as an experiment.

    Better players usually clear content faster than worse players.
    Last edited by Trollfaced; 2014-05-10 at 10:51 AM.
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  3. #3
    Assuming none of them would purposely troll the raid it would get blasted through with 0 deaths, in a very short time.
    It would be an exercise in tedium, the idea that LFR is easy when you have over 535 or needs some kind of leadership or communication when people know the fight objectives is ludicrous.
    All LFR needs, is a pulse and an EEG that is not completely flat.
    Last edited by Roadblock; 2014-05-10 at 10:58 AM. Reason: punctuation

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Mehman's Avatar
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    If all the people wanted to be there and agreed to the experiment, it'd go a TON faster, with fewer (0?) wipes. I don't really see them having a problem with leadership either, as all of them would know what to hit, when to hit it, and in case of Galakras/Spoils, a quick chat would clear up who goes where.


  5. #5
    I would suspect all 4 wings to be down within 2-2.5 hours. There would be no issue with leadership as none is needed in LFR. Not a single word mentioning any sort of strategy other maybe between tanks who starts / tanks what would be required and even that is not really required.
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  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trollfaced View Post
    It would definately go faster than the ordinary LFR, as an experiment.

    Better players usually clear content faster than worse players.
    Theoretically, correct. But these players are usually the same who AFK and die on purpose because LFR is beneath them. If I had to guess, that might be why the OP is wondering how such a run would go.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    Theoretically, correct. But these players are usually the same who AFK and die on purpose because LFR is beneath them. If I had to guess, that might be why the OP is wondering how such a run would go.
    Thats really only a crude generalization, do you have any proof of those assumptions?
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollfaced View Post
    Thats really only a crude generalization, do you have any proof of those assumptions?
    I want the runs to be treated just like a normal LFR run, including people leaving from boredom - or because they got their drop etc.

    The aim of the incentive at step 4 is to simulate a reward that is of the same value to a 14/14H raider as an LFR epic is to a typical LFR raider.

    The experiment is a social, technical and communications experiment.

  9. #9
    In the case of LFR, leadership wouldn't be a problem. In fact, a "leader" wouldn't even be needed other than telling specific people to do certain jobs such as splitting the raid for Spoils or putting together a "tower group" for Galakras. Most of the raiders would inherently follow the mechanics because they know that dead players help nobody and would simply want to get the wings done quickly.
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  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trollfaced View Post
    Thats really only a crude generalization, do you have any proof of those assumptions?
    I said usually. Not all of them. I know better than to put every person who does an activity in the same group. I dislike when people do that to me, so I avoid doing the same.

    Proof? Search these very forums a thread titled something like "Does anyone else do this?", or similar. There's your proof. Anecdotal evidence, that's right. But it's as good as the people claiming all people who run LFR are bad and/or lazy. Like I said, it's usually that kind of people who do that. Doesn't mean all of them are like that, or that it's a majority.
    Last edited by Adramalech; 2014-05-10 at 11:53 AM.
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  11. #11
    The majority of the runs would go very fast and smooth because:

    1) The players would vastly outgear the content i.e LFR SoO is meant to be run at item level ~496 and not fully gemmed and enchanted item 535 with tier set bonuses.

    2) The players would already know all the tactics and be used to playing in an organized and disciplined group.

    There would ofcourse be a small number of ass hats that would either afk or troll the raid, and there would be at least a few wipes if you got enough off the ass hats in your group.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyllian View Post
    The majority of the runs would go very fast and smooth because:

    1) The players would vastly outgear the content i.e LFR SoO is meant to be run at item level ~496 and not fully gemmed and enchanted item 535 with tier set bonuses.

    2) The players would already know all the tactics and be used to playing in an organized and disciplined group.

    There would ofcourse be a small number of ass hats that would either afk or troll the raid, and there would be at least a few wipes if you got enough off the ass hats in your group.
    He said Gear would be normalized to 535ilvl.

    But yeah the runs would go way faster, if the people had an insentive to run them.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lamelight View Post
    He said Gear would be normalized to 535ilvl.
    Which is still 39 item levels above what is required, trivialising the content even more. With that item level of gear the raid should be doing normal mode raids or at the very least flex mode.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Your average LFR guy with 535 gear: 100-120k DPS
    Heroic raider with 535 gear(scaled down heroic gear): 200k+ DPS

    The difference is immense if you actually know how to play your class.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    I want the runs to be treated just like a normal LFR run, including people leaving from boredom - or because they got their drop etc.

    The aim of the incentive at step 4 is to simulate a reward that is of the same value to a 14/14H raider as an LFR epic is to a typical LFR raider.

    The experiment is a social, technical and communications experiment.
    It would be exactly the same as any LFR run with the difference of stuff dying faster.
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  16. #16
    I don't understand what you're getting at here. Anyone who is 14/14H, the pool from which all players are drawn, understands each encounter exceptionally well. Put 25 of them together and each wing would be finished in record pace. The only thing which might slow people down is having some healers/tanks swap specs for fights where 2/6 is overkill. Leadership's an issue in LFR currently only because many players don't have a clue, so someone has to step up and spell out tactics. That's not the case here.

    Once a player got his gear he'd leave the run, all right, and he'd be replaced by another 14/14H raider who'd help to steamroll the content.

    LFR is incredibly trivial content as it is, and throwing 25 excellent players (assuming these players earned their achievements through progression, not carries) at it only makes it easier. You could probably have these people 1shot most heroic SoO fights without any voice comms/communication/leadership whatsoever.
    Last edited by trystero; 2014-05-10 at 08:08 PM.

  17. #17
    People will swap to 2~3 heals which would make stuff go even faster

  18. #18
    They will wipe left and right.

    10 of them go AFK.
    5 super elites will try to chain pull.

    All healers will dps and none will heal the tank.

  19. #19
    Do they know they're part of an experiment? If they do.. they could easily complete all 14 bosses in under 2 hours.. potentially less. You'll probably have 3-4x the DPS of an average LFR run, with players that know the mechanics inside and out, on content that is not challenging in the slightest and requires little to no coordination. Bosses would die in 3-5 minutes. Trash would melt. Hell, you could change the comp to 1 tank 3 heal on a bunch of fights and just melt bosses. Nothing would even need to be written in chat - if the majority of the group isn't afk, bosses will die.

    You can have half the group AFK in this scenario.. as long as one tank (would need two on a few fights) is there, half the healers, and half the DPS, it will still go quicker than the average LFR run..

    The average LFR run to me isn't really as bad as people say.. I probably wipe once every 8-10 bosses in LFR. They are hella slow though, because DPS is usually awful and you spend needless amount of time in front of bosses doing nothing.

    Not sure what the point of this experiment is. Are you trying to imply that a bunch of 14/14H people would have clashing egos and the entire group would just AFK/argue through everything? Could be the case if it was heroic... but LFR? No. There is nothing challenging about LFR, especially with people who've done the raid on the hardest difficulty and outgear it by 30+ ilvls.
    Last edited by Vedni; 2014-05-10 at 08:18 PM.

  20. #20
    The only problem they'd have is wasting time not tunneling the boss due to anticipating mechanics that are trivialized or outright removed in LFR.
    These forums are just a sad echo chamber, and MMO-C is more like an echo outhouse, but fortunately (or maybe I'm just lucky), most people you actually meet in game are not like that.

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