Selling Runs Getting Out of Hand

[Daez]

It seems like almost daily I see advertisements for dungeon runs. That I can live with. However, recently, I started seeing a lot more advertisements for flex runs (any ilvl) for 5k. To see that on a somewhat constant basis is kind of disheartening. Its like saying, we will use you to get through, you better contribute, but we will charge you anyways. That really kind of falls shy of the concept of making friends through Flex... its more like making employees.

[Televators]

I think any contributions from the paying member are unexpected surprises. To me, if you're paying, the group should be able to complete the instance objective without any help from you. If not, they have no business charging. I guess I agree with you, in a way.

[Queen of Hamsters]

"We can't make it without you, but you'll have to pay in order to join!"

That's what I gather. I was "offered" to join for all bosses in Flex for achievements, but they would charge me for it...10k. My main is 575 ilvl with 8/14 HC experience, so it was fairly obvious they wanted me there for my contribution but still acted like they would be doing me a service...-_-. I had just been asking in /trade for a flex achievement run.

[PuppetShowJustice]

Whats a dungeon run? Like, a 5 man? People buy those...?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Whats a dungeon run? Like, a 5 man? People buy those...?

Maybe he meant challenge modes?

[Tojara]

If there are buyers, I don't see the issue.

We sell heroic Garrosh mounts on 10 man, but do have restrictions. We generally ask that people are ~560iLvL + and have experience with at least the normal/flex version. Can largely carry somebody through, but dead weight throughout the entire encounter is kind of difficult.

[Bodom]

5k for a flex run (all parts?) on any character? Yes please!

[Socialhealer]

5k for a flex run (all parts?) on any character? Yes please!

idd i'd pay that, and if they kick me they'll get getting reported for scamming, buying boosts are well known and simply taking gold then going oh we can't kill these bosses if you do not do competitive damage means you get more money back because they did not complete your purchase.

[PuppetShowJustice]

I agree with Tojara. If a market exists then people are going to capitalize on it. That's normal. If a group's terms seem stupid, don't go with 'em.

How much does H Garrosh's mount go for these days anyways? Raiding completely died on my cluster so I fear I'll never see one. >.<;

[JemiS]

I would easily pay that for a few easy full flex clears on some of my lower geared alts. Sounds like a bargain.

[Libretto]

Garrosh mounts sell for 350-450k generally, least where I am.

[Hanto]

I don't think of it the same way you do at all. To me, it's like saying "Hey, we're selling spots to undergeared people. We expect nothing, die in a corner if you want. Grats on possible loot!"

[Jellog]

If there are buyers, I don't see the issue.

We sell heroic Garrosh mounts on 10 man, but do have restrictions. We generally ask that people are ~560iLvL + and have experience with at least the normal/flex version. Can largely carry somebody through, but dead weight throughout the entire encounter is kind of difficult.

Unrelated, but what type of a setup do you guys use when you sell the mount? Standard 2t/2h, or something different? We've talked about doing it, but I think it would be the case that we would have to stack the group to do it, which might jeopardize our ability to kill Garrosh in both groups.

[Agent Mercury]

There is no issue with this. They wouldn't be posts if people weren't interested. Some people enjoy playing the market and making copious amounts of gold to which they are free to spend as they see fit.

[MrExcelion]

I think all the CM buying/selling has been so successful/widespread (depending on your perspective) that players feel comfortable paying for other services. I know I see 200g for each 2s Arena win all the time, among other things like the OP listed. Players have gold and nothing to spend it on. On the other side of the coin, the AH isn't as lucrative in this final tier as it was at the start of MoP and selling these services might be far superior GPH (gold per hour)

[Tiev]

Whatever it is (5-men, raids, challenge modes) if people are paying to get it done to them then that is the utmost definition of pay to win. Not being done by the company but it's still pay - win.

Buy gold - buy run.

The fact that it's done so openly and blizzard does nothing to it is appaling.

No flying + LFR arguments be damned. This is even worse to me. Big deal breaker.

[JemiS]

The flaw to your argument is the whole "buy gold" portion of that.

People do get banned for buying and selling gold, frequently.

So it's not pay to win in the same sense- you have to earn your gold somehow.

Would it be any different if someone was trading Arena wins for a Flex raid run? Maybe they're good at PvP, but can't find a group for PvE, and other people feel the opposite.

It's also been in the game pretty much since the beginning. Buying/Selling mount runs for various dungeons, boosts through dungeons, GDKP runs, etc.Blizzard has never done anything about it, because it's part of any active economy. People get creative with what they can sell. As long as it's for real-world currency, there's no problem with it.

[Lubricious]

Paying in game currency isn't what people are talking about when they refer to "pay to win". You aren't paying actual cash to do better in the game.

Paying gold for runs is as old as the game itself. As long as there is a market, people will sell them. Clearly people are buying these runs or you wouldn't keep seeing them.

Also, while I don't pay for any of my completions, the ability to start a group/raid is open to everyone. If you would rather pay someone gold to do all the legwork and put together a team for you to join, then I think you should have that option.

[theostrichsays]

If people were selling Flex carries, I damn well better be able to tab out and afk, if anything was asked of me (unless I was the only lust in group and asked to pop it on pull and maybe cast a buff) then it wouldn't be worth it. I personally wouldn't pay for one, because its to easy to find groups, but I wouldn't think any less of someone who wanted a quick no hassle run.
To the guy complaining about this being pay to win, and how its a deal breaker. Years ago in Classic, we used to sell Molten Core, Black Wing, AQ gear all the time. Its far and away nothing new.

[Tojara]

Unrelated, but what type of a setup do you guys use when you sell the mount? Standard 2t/2h, or something different? We've talked about doing it, but I think it would be the case that we would have to stack the group to do it, which might jeopardize our ability to kill Garrosh in both groups.

We don't have two groups setup yet in our 10 man (just waiting for my alt tank to get geared up), but plan on stacking one group slightly more so we are able to do carries a bit easier.

We always have gone with 2T/2H. We do this because of consistency. Tanks bring CDs, don't need much healing and if you do vengeance properly the damage differential really isn't that large. We also do it because we have only had one person kite iron stars, and I would personally be so mad if the game decided to pick the person kiting the iron star (1/9 chance if solo tanking) essentially causing a wipe.

With our standard setup we almost always get Garrosh anywhere from 14-20%, prior to the second intermission.

We "PREFER" to carry healers because there is little for them to do anyway, and it still gives us plenty of cushion to make errors. One healer is always our priest, and it's really easy to carry a healer like a resto shaman when you tell them to follow the priest and to throw down healing tide during one of the EWC.

Have performed two carries so far, one with a resto shaman and one with a DPS warrior. Both were lower 560s and we had no problem doing the carry with that setup. Still had 1 EWC in P2 and in P3. Generally I just avoid giving them complicated tasks and tell them to treat the encounter like normal/flex Garrosh. The only iffy part is P4, but worst case scenario they just flat out die to malice. Haven't had problems with them spawning iron stars since the change because we find it really hard to force iron stars with the four person requirement now.

Generally carrying a healer changes nothing for our group, as DPS isn't compromised. We did progression with disc priest and a throughput healer, so when we carry a DPS (depending on iLvL, and how familiar they are) we just bring two disc priests for that particular kill. It normally evens out the damage compared to our regular run in addition to making the encounter fool proof. With two disc priests we have done the first intermission with as many as 7 people missing the buff.

Sell the mounts for 300-350k generally.

We still slightly stumble at heroic Garrosh because we change our composition every week, so it usually takes several wipes to dial in, even with a carry. I think as long as you let people know what they are in for, it's all gravy. I am sure there might be 10 mans capable of just having the carry die in the corner, but we would find it rather difficult to complete in this fashion. Garrosh is fairly straight forward IMO, at least for the first 3 phases. Flex/Normal experience is usually enough.