List your + / - of merging Alliance and Horde within WoW

[Pascal]

Considering it's kind of a pivotal point of the game, it would kind of ruin the entiiiiiiire feel of it.

[Khime]

I could see this as a possible new server type. We have PvP (more or less outright interfaction war) and PvE (more neutral, but still fighting) servers, why not add a Cooperative server? I've seen this done in at least one other faction-based MMO, and the amount of people who did (or did not) actively play on such a server would indicate whether or not the idea is really viable.

[MinTDH]

+ No more "herd fertvertiserm!!1!1" or "uhllerernce fervertersm!111!!"
+ Better server ratios
+ Easier to form PUGS

- Ruins lore, why the fuck would Varian side with Sylvanas after all she's done? That's hilarious. Also throws the core of the story out the window
- Economy goes to shit
- Would piss off most of the playerbase, mainly because factions were never an issue to begin with
- Have to redo most of the zones to support the new change

[D-Throes]

hell no, the fun in wow is killing the horde pigs

[Souflikar]

!------ No-------!
It's the essence of the game. It doesn't happen as often as it did but the most exciting portion of this game personally and currently(while we all wait), is Horde attacks on SW or even GS. However, those GS goobers deserve it. :-) But seriously, I think keeping the opposing factions is crucial for the life of this game. Change is good but not to the foundation.

[Xires]

+ more players to do stuff with


- none

it doesn't necessarily ruin the lore, the alliance and the horde teamed up so many times, to believe that we'd fight each other after banding together again and again is what really ruins the lore rofl


factions are so 2004, it's not a good idea to split your entire playerbase in two

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. The Horde and Alliance have only teamed up when they needed each other. Taking away factions takes away the point of warcraft people. Stop trying to change the game into something its not. Factions are not "2004" factions are an important part of the game. Its not even warcraft without it anymore. People on here that want to take away the essence of the game just for more "convenience" are a big reason why WoW has become so well....panda's.

[alexkeren]

Game would have to be completely recoded.

Warcraft has always been Alliance vs Horde since WC: Orcs and Humans.

factions are so 2004, it's not a good idea to split your entire playerbase in two

You mean so November 23, 1994. Of interest is the fact that WoW released, to the day, exactly 10 years later.

[Stir]

In terms of lore, the Horde cannot be part of the Alliance... ever. That's like saying that e.g. Palestinians will some day become a part of Israel, or vice-versa.
The long-standing hatred between these factions won't just "disappear", now that they've managed to secure a truce. The only way that the Alliance can take control of the Horde is to either kill about 60-75% of all members of the Horde, or enslave every single one of them. Neither of which helps against the looming threat.
If you don't do at least that much, then all you'll be able to do is split the Horde into smaller factions, some of which may want to join the Alliance, while the "Horde 2.0" will fend for themselves.
I mean, I can kinda see the Tauren maybe giving it a chance, but the Trolls have a burning hatred for Night Elves, the Undead would never, ever accept servitude under the Alliance and I considerably doubt that the clashes between Orcs and Nightelves+Humans will be easily handled after all their history and what the Orcs did to Night Elf territory.

Also, one should not forget that both sides are severely weakened from Garrosh's actions. The Horde a slight bit more, but not to the degree that the Alliance could simply steamroll them.

The 'Horde' has been conquered. There is no reason for the Alliance to let it continue existing. A continued existence of an enemy (especially an enemy as powerful as the Horde) can only weaken your position, especially when you've already won. So the result is a choice: Assimilation or annihalation. Period. There is no other logical choice.

Edit: As for 'The Horde would NEVER join' mentality: Suck it up. Join up or be destroyed. Something like 'yeah, but I dunt laik dem cuz reasons' is simply not a logical choice to make.

[Dangg]

This has to be the peak of ruining immersion for convenience.

It's the core of the game and gameplay.

[Aboubacar]

This has to be the peak of ruining immersion for convenience.

It's the core of the game and gameplay.

you can already do this in arenas and rbgs. I think they should removed it, but it makes a lot of your arguments irrelevant.

[xdrop]

This is the equivalent of removing guns from call of duty.

[FuxieDK]

In terms of lore, the Horde cannot be part of the Alliance... ever. That's like saying that e.g. Palestinians will some day become a part of Israel, or vice-versa.

The same is true in reverse..
(Dark Iron) Dwarves is the only alliance race, which would have a chance of being accepted into the Horde. However, we wouldn't mind having the only cool alliance race added to our forces.

[Voij]

The 'Horde' has been conquered. There is no reason for the Alliance to let it continue existing. A continued existence of an enemy (especially an enemy as powerful as the Horde) can only weaken your position, especially when you've already won. So the result is a choice: Assimilation or annihalation. Period. There is no other logical choice.

Edit: As for 'The Horde would NEVER join' mentality: Suck it up. Join up or be destroyed. Something like 'yeah, but I dunt laik dem cuz reasons' is simply not a logical choice to make.

Not sure how you've managed to misinterpret what happened in SoO that badly, but the Horde has NOT been "conquered". The Kor'kron division of the Orcs has been taken down, yes. In the battle to reclaim OG, many Horde soldiers lost their lives. Yet, the same is true for Alliance members: You guys also lost a bunch of soldiers against Garrosh.
So, where does this leave us? Well, with a massive army of Sylvanas' undead, almost all Trolls and Tauren still fully capable, large parts of the Goblin troops left, yadda yadda. Basically, the only faction that took a big hit on Horde side are the Orcs.

And you've still not manged to get one point: There cannot be an assimilation for Orcs, Trolls and Undead. Most of the Alliance's factions simply cannot accept the Undead. Meanwhile, the atrocities committed by Garrosh and his Orcs makes sure that Alliance members will resent them for a couple more decades... and Trolls... well, Trolls are Trolls, they don't trust Night Elves and Humans mostly.

And that's the thing: Assimilation is impossible. All that's left are annihilation and forced servitude/slavery. Which would still be a bad choice for the Alliance, since it'd mean that the Horde, even if it were to be as low as at 50% of it's original strength, would still fight to the last man. And that means that the Alliance would also lose about 1/3rd of it's population, because even at 50% strength the Horde is still a force to be reckoned with. [Horde cannot win against Alliance, but the costs of war for the Alliance would be waaaay too big to even consider it.]

PS: I should probably also mention that e.g. Tauren, Blood Elves and Goblins would not suddenly decide to side with the Alliance to save themselves. It goes against every fiber of their beings, writing this in there would be like adding that Varian has fallen in love with Sylvanas and wants to get a summerhouse with her at the coast of Durotar.

[Dangg]

you can already do this in arenas and rbgs. I think they should removed it, but it makes a lot of your arguments irrelevant.

Teaming up for a competition isn't the same as merging the entire faction.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

As much as it ruins lore and baseline essence the fact is it wouldn't change all that much. The "great panda war" that was suppose to bring war back to warcraft ended up feeling like doing dailies at a couple hubs (oh wait.. that is what it was). The two expansions before panda the horde and alliance were more or less allied as well. In panda they weren't but honestly felt like they were on that road again minus some eye narrowing at each other.

The only thing it would really kill is world pvp which honestly is pretty dead. No flying might bring it back a little but it isn't central in gameplay anymore and hasn't been for some time. BG's and all of that can still continue to be as is. Or you can even mix all of that up.

With all that said it feels a little radical to do this now. When you are going up against Sargeras or something like this maybe. Since that is a battle against the creator and the created. That might take a united front on a scale beyond current means or past collaborations. But while we are just stabbing pink and green skins with blades? No reason.

[Stir]

Not sure how you've managed to misinterpret what happened in SoO that badly, but the Horde has NOT been "conquered". The Kor'kron division of the Orcs has been taken down, yes. In the battle to reclaim OG, many Horde soldiers lost their lives. Yet, the same is true for Alliance members: You guys also lost a bunch of soldiers against Garrosh.

First and foremost: I mostly played Horde.

So, where does this leave us? Well, with a massive army of Sylvanas' undead, almost all Trolls and Tauren still fully capable, large parts of the Goblin troops left, yadda yadda. Basically, the only faction that took a big hit on Horde side are the Orcs.

Main base was taken out of the picture, logistics disappeared. An armed opposition is all but impossible. Regardless of an army of Forsaken, some trolls, tauren and goblins, the Alliance could at that point roflstomp the Horde simply because it has won all tactical fronts. Sure; the Undercity is a tough nut to crack.... But cut off as they are from the rest of the Horde, that really becomes a non-issue pretty quickly. A matter of setting a perimiter and moving it forward inch by inch; a siege tactic that may take years, but would ultimately crush the Forsaken. They have no choice but to capitulate.

And you've still not manged to get one point: There cannot be an assimilation for Orcs, Trolls and Undead. Most of the Alliance's factions simply cannot accept the Undead. Meanwhile, the atrocities committed by Garrosh and his Orcs makes sure that Alliance members will resent them for a couple more decades... and Trolls... well, Trolls are Trolls, they don't trust Night Elves and Humans mostly.

So why are they left to remain, then? That makes no sense whatsoever. The Alliance pretty much holds their lives in its hands, and if peace can never exist, then annihalation must be the only outcome. The only remaining beings would be scattered little groups; not a reformed Horde.

And that's the thing: Assimilation is impossible. All that's left are annihilation and forced servitude/slavery. Which would still be a bad choice for the Alliance, since it'd mean that the Horde, even if it were to be as low as at 50% of it's original strength, would still fight to the last man. And that means that the Alliance would also lose about 1/3rd of it's population, because even at 50% strength the Horde is still a force to be reckoned with. [Horde cannot win against Alliance, but the costs of war for the Alliance would be waaaay too big to even consider it.]

Really depends. Most of a war is in the distribution of goods and troops. The Horde has no basis for any of that. Annihilation is certainly an option.

PS: I should probably also mention that e.g. Tauren, Blood Elves and Goblins would not suddenly decide to side with the Alliance to save themselves. It goes against every fiber of their beings, writing this in there would be like adding that Varian has fallen in love with Sylvanas and wants to get a summerhouse with her at the coast of Durotar.

Not at all. The most obvious example here is Germany after World War II. But there are many instances of countries at war, where the victor assimilated the aggressor.
Let's not forget, as well, that the Horde rebels pretty much needed the Alliance forces to depose Garrosh. That means that, for all intents and purposes, the rebels WERE Alliance for at least that campaign. They've worked together often enough. The strong animosity between the Horde and the Alliance cannot be justified logically or politically, and this has not been possible for a long time. Which is exactly WHY Garrosh was such an ass-hat, why Varian is so zealously war driven, and WHY Jaina blew up innocent people after Theramore got bombed by an animosity-creating Garrosh. Those actions, by all individuals, do not make sense. They are band-aid fixes to keep the two-faction thing alive.

I just don't think anyone can justify the two-faction animosity after this one. It's over. Too many band-aids on the story, too much illogical, undiplomatic fakery. The story itself has become too internally inconsistent for the benefit of maintaining faction strife. They simply went too far in this; there were simpler, more elegant ways to go about it, but at the end of the day, nothing, not even strife, remains stable.

[rda]

Pro:

Better balance and queues in BGs (no Alliance-favored AV/IOC, no Horde-favored everything else).

They always say gameplay trumps lore, so that's fine.

[Deleted]

I don't follow. Especially for raids. Every single raid in the game the alliance and horde are coming together to defeat a common enemy. They are setting aside their differences from the battlefield (battlegrounds) and working together to save the world.

Only the NPCs, mind you. Takes an NPC mind to form a Cenarion Circle, an Ashen Verdict, anything sensible really. Players are not allowed to possess normally functioning brains and should enter instaberserk at the sight of The Enemy.

Also, the statement doesn't seem to apply to Naxx (at least new one) and Throne of Thunder. Ulduar - not 100% sure but Explorer's League is Alliance Vanguard. The trailer says all you need to know about Horde and Alliance setting aside their differences to end a common threat.

Of course, there are hurdles on the way to A/H persistent ceasefire or long term cooperation.
Ever tried to do 5.3 Barrens as an ally? After seeing the proposed greeting from DJ Vol'jin to an allied hero arriving to help the horde stop breaking apart I didn't even approach him on any of my allied toons and fully supported Tyrande's "don't think we're here to save your hide, troll" in SoO.
I also don't see any of my allied toons entering any kind of truce with Sylvanas. Would I reconsider after some serious territorial settlements and seeing some actual effort on the part of the Forsaken to repair what they did in Gilneas? Hell knows, she still replenishes numbers of the Forsaken by raising human corpses.
How do my ally toons work with goblins after their entrepreneurial successes in Stonetalon?
How do my ally toons work with orcs? They still derive their whole "culture" from the ever prevailing "me smash you die", can you really see a merge?
Can you see belven authorities actually working to repay for their involvement in destruction of Theramore?

And that's just from Alliance-centric perspective, I'm sure people more attached to the Horde side would find their own Koom Valleys to remember.

[Selah]

The Alliance and the Horde and the differences between the two are very sizable. At the heart of WoW is the Alliance versus Horde factor, they're natural enemies and though they've come together to fight a greater evil from time to time, they're just too large a part of the game to actually just merge into one. It would ruin the game at it's core. Because to be frank, I don't want to share the streets of Stormwind and Dalaran with Orcs that smell like they haven't showered in weeks.

Now, I would love to see a Merc system in WoW that allows you to play instances or BGs with mixed members of either faction. I do agree that splitting your player base in two doesn't do anyone many favors, but that would completely destroy WoW to merge the two.

[Grogo]

If not merging the two is not to your liking, Horde and Alliance really need more shit to make them hate each other in a big way. Then to really affect each others gameplay. Currently I am Horde, the Alliance is just some friendly people I see occasionally that I cant talk to. They wave to me time to time and I wave back. Yeah, thats so important to keep.