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  1. #1
    The Patient Zeruge's Avatar
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    Combat - Optimising Damage

    Hello!

    I posted this on the Battle.net forums but I know they're quite slow. I've pretty much got to grips with my rogue, I know most things I need to know to compete properly now, however I have a few questions regarding optimising my damage.

    - Should Killing Spree be used on cooldown, or saved for when I have Deep Insight? If the latter, what is a reasonable length of time to leave it off cooldown for before using it?

    - What is the minimum number of targets that should be in range before using Blade Flurry?

    - It's almost impossible not to cap my energy during Adrenaline Rush, at higher gear levels there's no possible way that can be avoided - as such, should I use Shadow Blades separately so as to reduce energy capping slightly (by generating less combo points), or in conjunction with to get the most out of Shadow Blades (but devaluing Adrenaline Rush)?

    Cheers
    Last edited by Zeruge; 2014-05-11 at 10:11 PM.

  2. #2
    I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that you should:
    1. Use KSpree on CD, unless you're a second or two away from reaching deep insight
    2. Two
    3. Use them together. The energy cap loss is offset by the restless blades CD reductions you're gaining from all those AR finishers. You want all those reductions to be applying to both CD's.

    Edit: Additional tip; make sure you're not using rupture with blade flurry active.
    Last edited by Lubricious; 2014-05-11 at 10:45 PM.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Chiasmus's Avatar
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    Use Killing Spree any time in between Shadow Blades/Adrenaline Rush cooldowns, ideally with a trinket proc. Worst case scenario use it with as high a Bandit's Guile as possible.

    The reasoning behind this is that it's pretty much impossible to use Killing Spree more than once in between Shadow Blades/Adrenaline Rush cooldowns, and when you use them both you're almost definitely going to fully reset its cooldown. Hence you should aim to use it when it'll do the most damage, that might be when a trinket procs (which is normally better than Deep Insight) or during an encounter specific burst window.
    Last edited by Chiasmus; 2014-05-12 at 09:16 AM.
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  4. #4
    I have found that there is nothing that hits harder than KS so delaying it is a DPS loss. Only time i delay it is when my ICD trinket is almosut up (5-10 sec top). I even use it during AR/SB.

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Chiasmus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocturnis View Post
    I have found that there is nothing that hits harder than KS so delaying it is a DPS loss. Only time i delay it is when my ICD trinket is almosut up (5-10 sec top). I even use it during AR/SB.
    It's not a DPS loss since delaying it doesn't change the amount of Killing Sprees you can cast during a fight. It is a DPS loss to not maximise the damage it does during a fight, which is what happens if you just spam it on CD.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Chiasmus View Post
    It's not a DPS loss since delaying it doesn't change the amount of Killing Sprees you can cast during a fight. It is a DPS loss to not maximise the damage it does during a fight, which is what happens if you just spam it on CD.
    While i might agree i found that you should really study your logs. I have fight where i would get 1 less KS than the other rogues. So my advice would be to try to maximise the number of KS just so u get a bench of how many KS you can get that fight and then on other kills try to line up cd and everything and compare the number of KS you managed to get this time. If your number is the same then line them up if not and if u get lesser KS you should figure out where you are losing those KS and adjust

  7. #7
    I think isn't KsP more accurately somewhere between a 30-45 second CD with AoC and Restelss Blades? So, delaying it 3 times at 10-15 seconds a fight could result in a loss of a KsP and more frequent delays of KsP could even lose more depending on how bad you play.

    Also it's not good to clip Ar/Sb with KsP unless it's like at the very end and you're in deep insight since the loss of energy/cp generation will screw over your next Ar/Sb cd.

  8. #8
    I think someone simmed the benefits of using KS during AR/SB, and the results were it is a dps gain to use it while both AR and SB are up, and you have 45 or less energy. Once I started changing my rotation to reflect that I would gain an extra KS in a fight as short as 4 minutes, and also saw a moderate dps gain without getting much more gear.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Chiasmus View Post
    It's not a DPS loss since delaying it doesn't change the amount of Killing Sprees you can cast during a fight. It is a DPS loss to not maximise the damage it does during a fight, which is what happens if you just spam it on CD.
    With AoC and the levels of haste in T16H gear, killing spree is roughly 30-40 second cooldown. If you delay 5 seconds every time you'll lose a usage of killing spree in only ~3 minutes.

  10. #10
    So here's my question. I recently switched to rogue for my raid team when we merged with another guild and my opener is getting 5 combo points and then using killing spree then using Slice and Dice. That way when I use AR/SB I'm still getting the shorter cooldown on my KS. Is that a smart way to open? DOes slice and dice effect Killing spree at all. Is it smarter to slice and dice prior to KS or does it really not matter at all?

  11. #11
    Always have SnD up for KS. You are correct in prioritizing KS over AR/SB, and should even pop KS during AR/SB in most situations if it comes off cd during both AR and SB. My typical opener is Ambush, SnD, KS, AR/SB to ensure KS gains the benefit of all my procs, engi gloves, trinkets and dancing steel.
    Last edited by overdose; 2014-05-12 at 11:12 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Korvax93 View Post
    So here's my question. I recently switched to rogue for my raid team when we merged with another guild and my opener is getting 5 combo points and then using killing spree then using Slice and Dice. That way when I use AR/SB I'm still getting the shorter cooldown on my KS. Is that a smart way to open? DOes slice and dice effect Killing spree at all. Is it smarter to slice and dice prior to KS or does it really not matter at all?
    Always have SnD up for KS (which overdose said). If you don't have SnD active, always use it immediately with whatever combo points you have. Also you're opening is also going to have your rppm agi procs drop before you hit AR/SB which is pretty bad.

  13. #13
    The Patient Zeruge's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot for all of this input guys

    I hadn't even thought about using KS during AR/SB - If you do this, does it reduce the time between the 7 attacks from 0.5 seconds to approx 0.4 seconds, and then 0.24 seconds with Slice and Dice up (excluding any haste)? Or is it always 0.5 seconds and the AR+SB just helps bolster your auto-attacks during it?
    Last edited by Zeruge; 2014-05-13 at 08:19 AM.

  14. #14
    Always 0.5. More haste means more autoattacks, main gauche, and poison procs that are boosted by 50%.

  15. #15
    The Patient Zeruge's Avatar
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    Ahh I'm with you. Perfect, thanks

  16. #16
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    Dunno what you guys do but my opener consists of

    - Prepot
    - Ambush or RS
    - Slice and Dice
    - Killing Spree
    - SB/AR

    i use ruptureless so i get quicker cds on my AR and SB along with KS and i do be up top 3 most of the time dunno if im missing something i never used KS in with AR or SB either

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Venema View Post
    i use ruptureless so i get quicker cds on my AR and SB along with KS and i do be up top 3 most of the time dunno if im missing something i never used KS in with AR or SB either
    Ruptureless actually means your cds are longer than if you had been using rupture.

  18. #18
    ^
    What Sesshou said.

    Rupture costs less energy than eviscerate, and provides the same amount of restless blades CD reduction. A ruptureless rotation will always have longer CDs than a rotation using rupture, assuming all else equal of course.

  19. #19
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    jesus a noob mistake by me thanks for that

  20. #20
    I really enjoy using killing spree with blade flurry when theres a nice pack of mobs nearby--you do soooo much damage
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