Cliven Bundy advocates hold BLM property invasion rally, may have destroyed artifacts

[Fexus]

As opposed to being able to meet personally with everyone who shows up?

I have stated multiple times what an idiotic policy open access to the president would be.

[Moralgy]

hey obama, let me take a selfie!

I would be that person.

[Wells]

But that's exactly what happened. In and out of court for 20 years? What took them so long to take actual action?

Because taking direct action was their absolute last resort? I mean you're asking questions about a timeline that is publicly available.

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Yeah a letter than is read by some clerk in some office in the basement that is never read by the president. No thanks. I wouldnt waste my time

Yeah and I bet he'd totally take you seriously if you met him in person.

[Cthulhu 2020]

He wasn't grazing on it, his cows were. The government owned by the people already made a ruling about it and he is refusing to pay the American people for the land his cows were grazing on. If government is owned by the people, he has been stealing from the people for 20 years. The money he made on the land I as government own, has to go to compensate me for land use. Just like any other land used for private enterprise...

Bingo!

The land belongs to the PEOPLE, not Cliven Bundy. Cliven Bundy was using PUBLIC land that nobody else is paying for. Most state parks are included in your taxes as upkeep for them is part of the National Park Service. The BLM receives a portion of the taxes as well for very simple upkeep of the land. If Cliven Bundy is going to use BLM land for his own profit, then I expect him to pay in kind, not be a moocher.

The welfare nanny state needs to stop letting moochers like Cliven Bundy keep getting away with tax evasion.

[Captainplanet]

The welfare nanny state needs to stop letting moochers like Cliven Bundy keep getting away with tax evasion.

At this point that wont happen without some crazy shit along with it. Judging from the perceptions of this thread, there is no more room for negotiation.

[Kaleredar]

Id argue that we SHOULD be allowed to. We should be allowed to walk in, go to the oval office and present our concerns to the President like they did in 1833

You can argue all you'd like about what you think the law SHOULD be, but we persecute people for braking laws the way they ARE.

[Surfd]

You know, I think I am going to move down to his state, find a nice chunk of "public land" with a river running through it, and build a house next to it. Then, I am going to build my own miniature hydro-electric generating station on the river to power my house. Shouldnt be anything wrong with that, right? I mean, its "public land", and nobody is using it for anything right? And as such we, the "public", should be allowed to use it however we goddamned want without any consequence, right? I mean, if Bundy can use "public land" to graze his cattle for free, why cant I use "public land" to power my house for free?

Seruously, if you honestly can not understand why Bundy is a scumbag asshole, you really don't deserve to live in your country.

[Niroshi]

Thats mainly what his job is and should be. To communicate with the people and hear their concerns.

This is why we have Representatives, they're the closest to the people in the federal government.

[Oktoberfest]

At some point many of you will learn to not believe the US media. Right or left sources, it doesnt matter. Nothing but corporate agenda based packs of lies half the time.

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JFK was such a rightwing extremist

"Today we need a nation of minute men; citizens who are not only prepared to take up arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as a basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.
The cause of liberty, the cause of American, cannot succeed with any lesser effort."
- President John F. Kennedy

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10th Amendment

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

[Cthulhu 2020]

A lot of people seem to ignore that first part of the 10th, as they mostly try to invoke the 10th to circumvent constitutional amendments that aren't the second.

I'm not sure what you think the media is lying about, you can get a pretty good bifocal view of what happened from at least two different opposing viewpoints. Triangulation occurs at more.

[Oktoberfest]

A lot of people seem to ignore that first part of the 10th, as they mostly try to invoke the 10th to circumvent constitutional amendments that aren't the second.

I'm not sure what you think the media is lying about, you can get a pretty good bifocal view of what happened from at least two different opposing viewpoints. Triangulation occurs at more.

I do not disagree that if you are open minded enough and watch say Fox and MSNBC that between the two you MIGHT get a somewhat accurate idea. I am just syaing most people are not capable of setting aside their glass of purple koolaid and party goggles to do so.

[Orbitus]

At some point many of you will learn to not believe the US media. Right or left sources, it doesnt matter. Nothing but corporate agenda based packs of lies half the time.

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JFK was such a rightwing extremist

"Today we need a nation of minute men; citizens who are not only prepared to take up arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as a basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.
The cause of liberty, the cause of American, cannot succeed with any lesser effort."
- President John F. Kennedy

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10th Amendment

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Another factually incorrect statement. Bundy and his idiotic supporters don't own this land. The federal government does, and they have since they got the land from Mexico in the Mexican-American war. Not to mention I doubt you will find any state law that allows vandalism and destruction of property.

[Templar 331]

At some point many of you will learn to not believe the US media. Right or left sources, it doesnt matter. Nothing but corporate agenda based packs of lies half the time.

So it's not true that ignorant people have been riding ATVs around in ancient Puebloans sites?

JFK was such a rightwing extremist

"Today we need a nation of minute men; citizens who are not only prepared to take up arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as a basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.
The cause of liberty, the cause of American, cannot succeed with any lesser effort."
- President John F. Kennedy

I'm guessing the reason he said something to this nature was because the Soviet Union was breathing down his neck and he wanted the American people to be ready to fight if the worst should come.

10th Amendment

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

And this has what to do with federally owned land?

[Endus]

10th Amendment

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

In almost every single case where the 10th is brought up, the General Welfare clauses trump it, as we're explicitly talking about a power that has been delegated to the US federal government by the Constitution.

[Wildtree]

10th Amendment

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Yeah, nice....
Let's have another look, shall we:

The 14th Amendment:

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States."
~~~~~~~
Article 6 Clause 2:
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.

The SCOTUS has repeatedly struck down any state attempts that tried to disable federal law.
Only federal courts can overrule federal law.

All in all, the USA itself is equally to a dysfunctional family. Too many states engaging in the special snowflake syndrome.
That's the real reason why things are the way they are in this country. It's to the point where it's highly debatable whether one can actually use the term Country.
It is the only federal country in the western world that struggles with the principles of what a federation actually is.
All other federal nations function with their states as executive organs, to ensure and handle all federal matters. In all federal nations the role of the states are limited to bylaws and to provide supportive oversight and stability.
And I've never ever seen so much constitution waving anywhere, as it's done in the US.
Every US state has been given a choice once. Either join, or stay a sovereign state/country. Every state who joined knew about the consequences.
In a metaphor, the USA is like Hotel California...... You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. That's a clear legal principle.
So if you join, you do so to abide by the laws of the country as a whole, and stop being a tantrum throwing baby.
You surrender individuality in exchange of benefits for the greater good of the people within the states, within the entire country. And there isn't a single state that would be capable to exist independently, other than maybe California. In fact, the more of a special snowflake syndrome is displayed by the various states, the less they are capable to be independent. They all are heavily dependent on the country.
And for people that are so unhappy with their government to the point that they consider revolutionary actions.. They either resort to them, and are then treated as domestic terrorists, or they are more civil and simply resort to leaving and move to another country.