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  1. #661
    Blademaster boomsnack's Avatar
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  2. #662
    Elemental Lord Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The problem is the scale; the current levels don't appear because they've been truncated.

    Here's one that includes current levels of CO2;



    See how we're significantly higher than the natural peaks of the past? Yeah.
    Actually, I don't think that graph is current either. If I'm measuring right, it shows the current level at about 380ppm. It's actually over 400.
    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea.
    Random fact of the day : Every sitting member of Congress receives an issue of Hustler every month.

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Actually, I don't think that graph is current either. If I'm measuring right, it shows the current level at about 380ppm. It's actually over 400.
    So looking at the natural points over time, and what those temperatures would be at those points, and where we are heading atm.

    It's the same story, we do not have much time left. Natural or not.

    True, we do not know what will happen at that point, it's all conjecture. Will the processes speed up once it starts? Plant life problems once it starts? Does it cause this http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/fea...eReversal.html

    Who knows.
    Last edited by thatmikeguy; 2014-05-14 at 04:03 PM.

  4. #664
    Herald of the Titans Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Yes.

    In 10,000 years.

    We're projecting similar-scale changes in the next few centuries, depending on exactly how many feet you mean. Way, way faster than the natural process.
    The pollution we are creating is already affecting life forms on the planet in very negative ways and in less than 100 years will have a much bigger impact on life as we know it on this planet in a much bigger way than global warming will. We can make a concentrated global effort on manmade green house contributions, slow down global warming, while ignoring the other pollution factors and still be screwed in 100 years or less. The stressed points should be on all pollution made by man with a global effort. Which no matter who may be correct on global warming, the facts are clear we are destroying our environment from man made pollution.

  5. #665
    Fluffy Kitten Annoying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I think Im going to need to see a citation for that.
    Sure. Solar panels:
    Oklahoma - http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/okl...-solar-panels/
    Georgia - http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local...lar-ene/nTB6P/
    Missouri - http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/m...caaae6ed2.html

    Electric cars:
    Missouri - http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/m...caaae6ed2.html
    New Jersey - http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/11/54...-in-new-jersey
    North Carolina - http://www.businessinsider.com/north...a-sales-2013-5
    Texas, Arizona - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_4992758.html

    This took maybe 3 google searches.
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  6. #666
    Herald of the Titans Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatmikeguy View Post
    And where did all that water go?

    Shocking!
    Not only that, but see where Antarctica is located ? Why does fossilized tropical flora exist there now under the ice? The answer is, the earth as a whole was much warmer than it is now.

  7. #667
    Fluffy Kitten Annoying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    And neither will I be alive, which is why I dont give 2 shits about climate change even though I believe its natural and not made made
    Well, what you believe means absolutely jack. It's what science can, and has, proven.
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  8. #668
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Not only that, but see where Antarctica is located ? Why does fossilized tropical flora exist there now under the ice? The answer is, the earth as a whole was much warmer than it is now.
    There is also this happening at the same time..

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ia-earth-core/

  9. #669
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    The pollution we are creating is already affecting life forms on the planet in very negative ways and in less than 100 years will have a much bigger impact on life as we know it on this planet in a much bigger way than global warming will. We can make a concentrated global effort on manmade green house contributions, slow down global warming, while ignoring the other pollution factors and still be screwed in 100 years or less. The stressed points should be on all pollution made by man with a global effort. Which no matter who may be correct on global warming, the facts are clear we are destroying our environment from man made pollution.
    Nobody is saying that all we need to worry about are greenhouse gasses and the like. You're arguing against a position that doesn't exist. Taking a position on one subject, like anthropogenic climate change, doesn't prevent you from simultaneously having a position on, say, water pollution that's harming fragile ecosystems.

    You can be against both. It's not like the moment we have a second position on any topic, the first position vanishes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Not only that, but see where Antarctica is located ? Why does fossilized tropical flora exist there now under the ice? The answer is, the earth as a whole was much warmer than it is now.
    The correct answer is "plate tectonics and continental drift".

    While the Earth was warmer, the reason you see the fossils you do in Antarctica is because it wasn't anywhere near the South Pole at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by thatmikeguy View Post
    There is also this happening at the same time..

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ia-earth-core/
    Has nothing at all to do with that.

    The drifting of the magnetic pole has no effect whatsoever on the position of the geographic pole. In theory, the magnetic "north" pole could be on the equator, and the ice caps would still be where they are today.

  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Actually, I don't think that graph is current either. If I'm measuring right, it shows the current level at about 380ppm. It's actually over 400.
    Real time graph can be found here.

    http://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/

    Currently JUST over 400ppm, but the value goes up and down constantly. It's the overall trend that needs to be paid attention to, not what it's at right this second.
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  11. #671
    Elemental Lord Masark's Avatar
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    Ah, here's a up-to-current graph

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea.
    Random fact of the day : Every sitting member of Congress receives an issue of Hustler every month.

  12. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    If our contribution is negligible to nonexistent, then reducing that contribution will have no effect, except accelerating the development of things we should develop anyways. Our current preferred fuel sources are limited and we'll have to wean ourselves off of them eventually.


    If our contribution is significant or the primary cause, then reducing that contribution will save the world and make Captain Planet happy.
    The pollution from the volcanic activity on Iceland(2010) to our atmosphere, was greater than the estimated human pollution over the last 10 years.
    Last edited by DPA; 2014-05-14 at 04:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    Are you really looking for logic in a game that sends you dragons via the mail service?...

  13. #673
    Herald of the Titans Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Nobody is saying that all we need to worry about are greenhouse gasses and the like. You're arguing against a position that doesn't exist. Taking a position on one subject, like anthropogenic climate change, doesn't prevent you from simultaneously having a position on, say, water pollution that's harming fragile ecosystems.

    You can be against both. It's not like the moment we have a second position on any topic, the first position vanishes.



    The correct answer is "plate tectonics and continental drift".

    While the Earth was warmer, the reason you see the fossils you do in Antarctica is because it wasn't anywhere near the South Pole at the time.



    Has nothing at all to do with that.

    The drifting of the magnetic pole has no effect whatsoever on the position of the geographic pole. In theory, the magnetic "north" pole could be on the equator, and the ice caps would still be where they are today.
    Global warming being stressed is a political move to try to win support for a certain agenda in order to enhance the view of a party. Instead stress what almost all humans know and can see is happening. Manmade pollution. You do not need a scientist to confirm that. Just go to a oil slick and see how it impacts life. :P

    And from that chart of the one single large continent, Antarctica is fairly close to the south pole still. :P Even under present conditions, any land that close to the south pole would not have tropical vegetation unless the Earth in fact was much warmer than it is now.

  14. #674
    Elemental Lord Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPA View Post
    The pollution from the volcanic activity on Iceland(2010) to our atmosphere, was greater than the estimated human pollution over the last 10 years.
    "Pollution" in exactly what form? And do you have the actual numbers?
    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea.
    Random fact of the day : Every sitting member of Congress receives an issue of Hustler every month.

  15. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    For reference, this is what it looks like now in that projection

    FYI, that world map is so wrong it's not even funny. Notice how in that map the area of the lower 48 states of the United States combined with Canada is almost as big as Africa, and you could fit 1.5 Africas in the area of North America? We really ought to start using the real world map so people learn the true sizes and shapes of countries and continents.

    This, for example, is the true size of Africa:

    (Click to enlarge.)


    You can basically fit North America almost twice inside Africa.
    Last edited by Sydänyö; 2014-05-14 at 08:49 PM.
    've is short for have. C/Sh/Would've or c/sh/would have. Not c/sh/would of.

  16. #676
    Elemental Lord Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    We really ought to start using the real world map so people learn the true sizes and shapes of countries and continents.
    The only "real world map" you're going to get is a globe. You can't flatten a sphere without distorting it somewhere somehow.
    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea.
    Random fact of the day : Every sitting member of Congress receives an issue of Hustler every month.

  17. #677
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Global warming being stressed is a political move to try to win support for a certain agenda in order to enhance the view of a party.
    I'm going to keep repeating this point.

    Science is not political. We aren't talking about adaptation strategies or responses. That is arguably political. The science itself is not.

    If a building's about to collapse, you can debate whether it's better to demolish it or repair it, and you can make political-agenda arguments either way. Disputing gravity itself to claim it won't fall down is not a political position, it's just ignorance.

    And from that chart of the one single large continent, Antarctica is fairly close to the south pole still.
    In the same sense that New Zealand or Argentina are "fairly close to the South Pole", today.

  18. #678
    You know Canada, Alaska, and Mexico are part of North America too right?

    North America has an area of 9.54 million sqmi.
    Africa is 11.67 million sqmi.

    Google is amazing!

    And apparently you don't understand maps.
    Last edited by Ahhdurr; 2014-05-14 at 05:15 PM.

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    The only "real world map" you're going to get is a globe. You can't flatten a sphere without distorting it somewhere somehow.
    You can do a decent job. Different projections such as http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...on_rotated.svg

    There's still distortion, of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    If anybody is thinking of buying me a gift I would much rather they just donate that money to charity instead.
    Maybe I'm having a stroke.
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  20. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahhdurr View Post
    You know Canada, Alaska, and Mexico are part of North America too right?
    Fair enough. I did mean only the lower 48 and Canada, the main, central land mass of the continent. Should've said so. The US without Alaska, together with Canada are around 6. Edited my earlier post to reflect this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahhdurr View Post
    And apparently you don't understand maps.
    I understand that there are plenty of things wrong in the map the world currently uses. Not just concerning North America.
    Last edited by Sydänyö; 2014-05-14 at 08:49 PM.
    've is short for have. C/Sh/Would've or c/sh/would have. Not c/sh/would of.

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