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  1. #1

    How much damage/healing/tanking does one get per ilvl upgrade?

    In response to the news about 8 more ilvls being able for upgrades per item and the responses that I am reading regarding earning a buff vs an overall nerf of content, I am curious just how much those higher ilvls will really impact things? Suggestions for a formula to figure it out? Is there a modifiable simulation tool available?

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    It's huge, trust me. We've cleared 4/14 heroic and having picked up just a few heroic items (including DW'ing heroic weapons myself) we can now flip Garrosh on 10m before he even gets one empowered whirlwind out. I can only imagine what 8 more item levels, across the board, would do.

    At least this will give most of us MORE reason to raid again and hop back into SoO. More VP = more upgrades = more heroics down = more gear & achievements. I'm EXCITED!



  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    At heroic item levels, on average probably around 1-2% per ilvl.

    Simcraft already updated the DPS rankings with +8 ilvls, CollisionTD posted them here: Thread link.

    Expect at least 40k upgrade at BiS, some classes gain way more than that.

    Edit: As far as impact on boss strategies, a lot more guilds will be able to(on 25HC) to push Garrosh to trigger P3 before 2nd transition happens. Our best tries so far have been around 16% with no Lust.

    Not only would this make the fight a lot faster(we afk 2nd transition), but also a lot less silly wipes due to the Monk tank not having to kite adds until P3 is half way over.
    Last edited by Tehterokkar; 2014-05-14 at 01:37 PM.

  4. #4
    Wow...40K...so if the average player is doing 150k DPS and now does 190k, that's about a 27% damage increase, which is similar to what a "blanket nerf" would be...

  5. #5
    Brewmaster Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cybercrusader View Post
    Wow...40K...so if the average player is doing 150k DPS and now does 190k, that's about a 27% damage increase, which is similar to what a "blanket nerf" would be...
    That 40k was BiS. The average player doesn't have that. Still, any increase is welcome.

  6. #6
    Its about 10-20% maximum throughput increase depending on class and spec but about 15%~. Mileage may vary.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by cybercrusader View Post
    Wow...40K...so if the average player is doing 150k DPS and now does 190k, that's about a 27% damage increase, which is similar to what a "blanket nerf" would be...
    Thats the wrong way of looking at it.
    If an average player does 150k dps it won't go up to 190k dps. If a terrible player does 40k dps it won't go up to 80k dps.
    For every ilevel you will see a 1-2% increase on what they currently do.

  8. #8
    As for healing increase - it will all be stolen by Discs and Paladins, what with their even higher absorbs.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    As for healing increase - it will all be stolen by Discs and Paladins, what with their even higher absorbs.
    Yea resto dru's and shammies shouldn't even bother to upgrade!

  10. #10
    It isn't standard, and depends on why items are goin up and a class scaling. If you have full heroic BiS but a Flex weapon, your damage will be different from somebody with the same item level, but a higher weapon (and subsequently not BiS for everything else)

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cybercrusader View Post
    Wow...40K...so if the average player is doing 150k DPS and now does 190k, that's about a 27% damage increase, which is similar to what a "blanket nerf" would be...
    Reading Comprehension is something that should have been learned at Elementary School

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Expect at least 40k upgrade at BiS, some classes gain way more than that.
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2014-05-14 at 04:55 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Reading Comprehension is something that should have been learned at Elementary School
    Noted, I overgeneralized. Apologies. Thanks all for the interesting discussion.

  13. #13
    Looks to be 11-13% looking at that simcraft chart. About 1.4-1.6% increase per ilvl?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Juesh View Post
    Depends really on class/spec/what you are upgrading tbh.

    A warrior gaining a item level by upgrading their main hand weapon will be a much bigger dps increase than his gaining an ilvl by upgrading their ring or something.
    Most classes get a pretty decent jump from upgrading weapons.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    At heroic item levels, on average probably around 1-2% per ilvl.

    Simcraft already updated the DPS rankings with +8 ilvls, CollisionTD posted them here: Thread link.

    Expect at least 40k upgrade at BiS, some classes gain way more than that.

    Edit: As far as impact on boss strategies, a lot more guilds will be able to(on 25HC) to push Garrosh to trigger P3 before 2nd transition happens. Our best tries so far have been around 16% with no Lust.

    Not only would this make the fight a lot faster(we afk 2nd transition), but also a lot less silly wipes due to the Monk tank not having to kite adds until P3 is half way over.
    Hopefully this happens because its so annoying afk'ing the second trans... Our best is about 16% too but on average 17-18%. If each dps can do an additional 20k at least we should be able to push it easy. Would make the fight flow a lot better than 40 seconds or so afk half way through. ^_^

    And Paragons heroic is gonna be a lol fest since they'll die even quicker xD

    Oh and finally so looking forward to burning Thok down to like 20% or something stupid in phase 1. Best yet is 41%.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by cybercrusader View Post
    Wow...40K...so if the average player is doing 150k DPS and now does 190k, that's about a 27% damage increase, which is similar to what a "blanket nerf" would be...
    Exactly what a blanket nerf would be, with three fairly key differences:

    1. It gradually rolls out through your team, rather than landing all that difference at one time. It takes more than a month to fully upgrade if you don't have 3k/3k today, and even with that boost every item upgrade that drops is a full week from upgraded.

    2. It gradually increases power, so you are more likely to hit the DPS check on, say, H-nourishen, and get the gear drops, which increase the power vs upgrade curve a bit more oddly.

    3. It feels different, in the sense that you get more powerful just like you did through progression, rather than like you are a charity case, like "hey, we nerfed the pants off it" does.

    Practically they coulda just thrown that into the game and called it done, but this feels better. Like the levelling perks: a good move, and it shows the devs are really, really focused on the "feel" of the game for WoD. I have high hopes because of this -- it should feel much more awesome even if mechanically it is identical.

    (...and I know that there is a big difference for me between "knowing" something and "feeling" it. I still feel nervous making presentations in public, for example, even though I know that I do it pretty well. Knowing this is mechanically identical won't make it feel less nice to me.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by SlippyCheeze View Post
    3. It feels different, in the sense that you get more powerful just like you did through progression, rather than like you are a charity case, like "hey, we nerfed the pants off it" does.
    In addition to that, it's also a very real increase that works everywhere in the game world and not merely an artifical buff that only functions in a single raid instance - which was the case with ICC. People won't be doing 30% less dps once they enter the WoD content... well, I mean, they *will* because of squish, but that's different As far as the raid nerfs go, it's probably the best one they did so far.

  18. #18
    Grunt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Thats the wrong way of looking at it.
    If an average player does 150k dps it won't go up to 190k dps. If a terrible player does 40k dps it won't go up to 80k dps.
    For every ilevel you will see a 1-2% increase on what they currently do.
    And an important thing to consider is that an average player who does 190k will be getting so many upgrades that they probably wont be able to keep up with the amount of valor needed to improve your gear. It's going to take a while for BIS people to upgrade their stuff, and even longed for everyone else

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Juesh View Post
    True but a melee/hunter would get a much bigger jump than a caster would.
    Blizzard said that's a common misconception: the extra spellpower on caster weapon's is "massive", I think the quote was. Eyeballing the SimCraft numbers linked in post #3, some of the casters - mages, warlocks - get pretty hefty dps boosts from the ilevels. (The numbers are not for weapons alone, but Blizzard's point was about weapon upgrades.)

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Juesh View Post
    I've done the math myself. Me upgrading my weapons 8 item levels is roughly 2/3 as strong as a fury warrior in my group upgrading his weapons 8 item levels. And about 4/5 the strength of a hunter in my group upgrading his bow 8 ilvls.
    I'm sure casters trinkets compensate for this since I'd imagine most casters get more benefit from trinks (well, DoT classes anyway)

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