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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    Considering his sig stating he's in a top 50 US guild with Garrosh heroic down, I think he knows about high-end raiding. And the fact you seem to think max level raiders don't keep improving and farming for true BiS shows you don't know anything about it.

    Even if they weren't selling off carries or staying on top of their game for the next expansion, or just getting BiS for slightly faster leveling next expansion... Some people just like being the best they can possibly be.
    Death Jesters is hardly "high-end" raiding. They took nearly 2 months from their first Paragons kill to kill Garrosh...

    Being 588 is meaningless for everyone (read: 14/14H). It's just something to inflate already cheesed dps rankings.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinge View Post
    Death Jesters is hardly "high-end" raiding. They took nearly 2 months from their first Paragons kill to kill Garrosh...

    Being 588 is meaningless for everyone (read: 14/14H). It's just something to inflate already cheesed dps rankings.
    there are people in full 574 gear that is struggeling with siegecrafter - garrosh, thus being 582 instead will provide a progression path for them, for people who have cleared the raid for 4 months ago it doesn't really matter.

    yes it will inflate dps rankings, but what does those even matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyeranth View Post
    Why dont we just have thrall and Malfurion whip it out and someone can measure and then we can be done with it.

  3. #263
    Brewmaster Salech's Avatar
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    Blizzard is only doing this to give you the illusion of "content" don't fool yourselves, as for the upgrades it sucks but not much can be done about as blizz is quite adamanent in doing bullshit stuff all the time and calling it "exciting" "content" or worse "immersion".

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Salech View Post
    Blizzard is only doing this to give you the illusion of "content" don't fool yourselves, as for the upgrades it sucks but not much can be done about as blizz is quite adamanent in doing bullshit stuff all the time and calling it "exciting" "content" or worse "immersion".
    Its helping guilds progress further by upgrading their characters, how this "sucks" or is "bullshit" is beyond me..

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by theburned View Post
    there are people in full 574 gear that is struggeling with siegecrafter - garrosh, thus being 582 instead will provide a progression path for them, for people who have cleared the raid for 4 months ago it doesn't really matter.

    yes it will inflate dps rankings, but what does those even matter.
    Did you not read what I wrote? I said that being 588 is useless for everyone that's 14/14 Heroic ALREADY. This was about people being in guilds that have clearly cleared the content, not ones struggling on nerfed content.

  6. #266
    By the time 6.0 hits you won't even need multiple sets.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Leeches View Post
    Indeed. You sound like your guild's bitch. The time needed to respec 2-4 times per raid (potentially more) along with the gold required to do all that shit must be insane. No druid plays 4 specs. Not even druids in world 1-10 guilds. Your guild is just using you hard and laughing, while the other potential tanks / healers / dps sit and go "good, i dont have to dps, this little bitch will do that job for me"

    Brought it on yourself, simply put.
    Might wanna give the OP a read before you reply :>

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrisee View Post
    Might wanna give the OP a read before you reply :>
    Which is what he did, recently Im getting the feel you're making this situation up just as an excuse to make a whine-thread. :>

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrisee View Post
    Was actually reffering to warcraftlogs ranks in that statement and raiding in a 10 man I exclude WF from BiS since it's not something I'm relying on dropping eventually.
    Then you aren't as close to full BiS as you were claiming. BiS is BiS, not best gear that's easily farmable.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilderness View Post
    A blanket SoO nerf would change nothing for you but speed up your clears, while this isn't quite as convenient even though the extra effort needed is going to be minimal, so I get why you'd prefer the former. However, doing it this way, in my opinion, is much better for many more players and a minor inconvenience for you at best.
    This I would agree with if not for alts. Really, that's my major complaint. Capping VP on my main character is going to be a mild inconvenience at worst... but now I feel compelled to do it on my other 2-3 characters I play a lot as well. *That* is where my annoyance kicks in, since I HATE capping VP as it is, so doing it 4 times a week is not something I look forward to. I also don't raid on all 3 other characters every week like I do on my Hunter, so I don't have a free 500+ VP starting point. I have to grind HS every day, which is a total chore... especially in OQ groups when you're basically soloing the damn things because people are idiots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinge View Post
    Death Jesters is hardly "high-end" raiding. They took nearly 2 months from their first Paragons kill to kill Garrosh...
    "I have nothing to add to this discussion so I'll insult someone's guild instead!"

    Please stop existing.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrisee View Post
    it will take 32 weeks for me to finish upgrading my gear.
    And this is THE ONLY reason why they added it. They want you to PAY for 32 weeks with no effort from their side.

  12. #272
    Item upgrades will be time consuming yeah, but I prefer this as it increases our characters power instead of just making enemies weaker.

    Quote Originally Posted by z4x View Post
    And this is THE ONLY reason why they added it. They want you to PAY for 32 weeks with no effort from their side.
    If people decide to resub for something so insignificant that is there choice, if you're still subbed then who cares about getting something else to spend valor on.
    Fool me once, shame on you. Teach someone to fool me and fool me forever.
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    Canada?
    Who threatens Canada? That's like, threatening that nice old man in the park who's always feeding the birds and giving wisdom to strangers.

  13. #273
    The change does two things:

    #1) If you're already capped, or going to be capped on item upgrades, it gives you more room to continue to upgrade your gear.

    #2) It gives you the option to upgrade higher-value items further rather than wasting upgrades on items you plan to replace or with lower stat budgets, simply because you no longer had any items to upgrade.


    You don't win the game when you get all items fully upgraded. You win the game when you clear all the content that you set out to clear. Gear in PvE is a tool for killing bosses, nothing more, and all this changes is that you have more room before you hit a brick wall with no more upgrades possible.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    Then you don't understand how high-end raiding works. "We're done" does not mean "We can slack off completely and not try". If there are still avenues of improvement, we must follow them.
    Actually I'm perfectly aware of how high-end raiding works. High-end raiders typically min/max and improve their characters as best they can because it's required at that level of raiding. Once you've had the instance on farm for months, I don't really see how you can argue that your raiders should do anything to improve their characters further. I'm sure you guys probably sell runs too, which means you're already carrying people on your backs the entire way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    Considering his sig stating he's in a top 50 US guild with Garrosh heroic down, I think he knows about high-end raiding. And the fact you seem to think max level raiders don't keep improving and farming for true BiS shows you don't know anything about it.
    1) Nobody is here to talk about Death Jester's progression. Let's keep their ranking out of it. They're not in the Top 10-20, which unfortunately means they are not at the level of Blood Legion or Method, ie, people who can actually be considered hardcore raiders.

    2) Obviously top level raiders still improve and farm for BiS. Nobody's trying to argue that point. My initial point is that no raid leader with a functioning brain would seriously expect a group of raiders that has had Garrosh on farm for months to go out and instantly upgrade their gear ASAP. The only thing any guild that has been farming SoO for months will see are faster clears. That's about it.

    Even if they weren't selling off carries or staying on top of their game for the next expansion, or just getting BiS for slightly faster leveling next expansion... Some people just like being the best they can possibly be.
    If they want to be the best they can possibly be, then they shouldn't care about having to farm for valor.

    My issue is with the two-sided viewpoint here. So many people argue that they shouldn't be forced to cap valor, and then when you point out that they're not forced, they mention how they're a top-end raider and need to. You can only choose one of the points of view; you're either a top-end raider, at which point you should expect and be expected to put in the maximum effort; or you're a casual raider and there's no need to put in the maximum effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salech View Post
    Blizzard is only doing this to give you the illusion of "content" don't fool yourselves, as for the upgrades it sucks but not much can be done about as blizz is quite adamanent in doing bullshit stuff all the time and calling it "exciting" "content" or worse "immersion".
    Blizzard is not doing this to give you the illusion of content. They're doing it to nerf Siege of Orgrimmar. Nowhere have they mentioned that they're trying to extend the content or make players more interested in playing. These types of end of expac nerfs come around all the time, only Blizzard is trying a different approach this time.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Salech View Post
    Blizzard is only doing this to give you the illusion of "content" don't fool yourselves, as for the upgrades it sucks but not much can be done about as blizz is quite adamanent in doing bullshit stuff all the time and calling it "exciting" "content" or worse "immersion".
    Haha illusion, the new catch word.

  16. #276
    Stood in the Fire
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    But what will people have to waste time on? I mean with the low valor cap ppl will be force....errr encouraged to go back and do crappy old content for upgrades again.

  17. #277
    Moderator Wilderness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    This I would agree with if not for alts. Really, that's my major complaint. Capping VP on my main character is going to be a mild inconvenience at worst... but now I feel compelled to do it on my other 2-3 characters I play a lot as well. *That* is where my annoyance kicks in, since I HATE capping VP as it is, so doing it 4 times a week is not something I look forward to. I also don't raid on all 3 other characters every week like I do on my Hunter, so I don't have a free 500+ VP starting point. I have to grind HS every day, which is a total chore... especially in OQ groups when you're basically soloing the damn things because people are idiots.
    Fair enough, but if you don't raid every week on those characters, do you really need to cap their VP every week? That is definitely going to be a chore, but that's really more your choice than a real need. Totally agree about OQ groups though, ugh.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by theburned View Post
    there are people in full 574 gear that is struggeling with siegecrafter - garrosh, thus being 582 instead will provide a progression path for them, for people who have cleared the raid for 4 months ago it doesn't really matter.

    yes it will inflate dps rankings, but what does those even matter.
    Siegecrafter broke my guild's 25-man team. They scaled down to 10-man and have over 200 wipes and counting with everyone in 575+ gear. Believe me, there are some folks out there who could *REALLY* use the extra upgrades, and I sure as hell will be capping every tuesday.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilderness View Post
    Fair enough, but if you don't raid every week on those characters, do you really need to cap their VP every week? That is definitely going to be a chore, but that's really more your choice than a real need. Totally agree about OQ groups though, ugh.
    it will be less of chore if the buff to vp will be 100% instead 50 % - since he will be capping vp on main anyway (for ms and os upgrades) it will be easier on alts since ull need only what 5 hc scenarios to cap on alt with that buff. - and if he raids on alts ? even less work since he will be able to cap on them only through raid with 100% vp buff.

    people make it look like 10 times worse grind then it will be in reality //shrug and with how much coins they should have hado n mains if they only played on TI they shoudl have at least enough for few weeks of vp caping thrugh incoming vp badges on isle.

  20. #280
    If you and your entire raid are happy to go for the "challenge" aspect, then simply none of you need to upgrade.
    That way you still get the experience you are after, but without hurting people that do not share your view.

    If it was simply nerfed directly then people would complain about how the game is being catered to the "casuals".
    This way the additional upgrades have to be earned, and are entirely optional without making your job easier unless you want to.
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    I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.
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    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

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