Massively Underperforming 11/14H Boomkin could use help

[Girthmonster]

So I wrote this note to Lappe in Paragon but I figured I'd share it here in the hopes of getting some feedback and seeing what the hell I'm doing wrong.

Hello Lappé and whoever else in Paragon receives this,

Thank you for taking the time to read my email. I am a Horde Troll Moonkin on the US server Zul'jin. My current progression is 11/14H 25 man SoO. Here is the link to my armory -- http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ulina/advanced

I have a couple questions because I think I am massively under-performing at the moment

Here are logs from the last two weeks:

- Tuesday April 6th -- http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-gxhuoo5wxn6wng06/

- Yesterday -- http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Mr6nwfdxg2pjkKNb#

You'll notice a huge drop from last week to this week.

Talents used per fight are

Immers: DoC + Inc + Lunar opener
Protectors: DoC + Inc + Solar
Sha: HoTW + Treants + Solar
Galak: DoC + Inc + Solar -- but was on tower grunt duty yesterday.
IJ: HoTW + Treants + Solar
Shamans: HoTW + Inc + Solar
Nazgrim: DoC + Inc + Solar
Malk: HoTW + Treants + Solar
Spoils: I have no fucking clue what to do here so I just dps w DoC + Inc + wtf opener
Thok: Only ever healed it but guess would be HoTW + Treants + Solar
Blackfuse: HoTW + Treants + Solar.

Any help would be greatly appreciated sir. I feel like I could be pulling way bigger numbers than I am.

Thank you very much.

Regards,

Eugenio

[Aboubacar]

Why aren't you just using Incarnation/hotw? As long as your 2nd use is w/ meta gem you should be doing well. A lot of your openers are wrong anyway like Sha of Pride start prelunar and use CA at last second of all procs in case you get a gift buff and so you're in solar for the adds. Leave mushrooms down for the 2nd or third wave of adds (probably for 2nd set of 3m).

DoC is going to fall behind on every fight after like 2min. I'll check logs later in day if no one else gets to it.

On Galakras how are you approaching that? You should DoT every add w/ eclipse DoT (don't forget about the add that spawns by the tower either) and one uneclipse, then push a new eclipse when Nature's grace is starting to fall off.

On protectors it says you only used 1 set of 3min cds. Depending on how your guild pushes phases try to use 2nd set of cds during the 2nd bubble.

[Girthmonster]

Why aren't you just using Incarnation/hotw? As long as your 2nd use is w/ meta gem you should be doing well. A lot of your openers are wrong anyway like Sha of Pride start prelunar and use CA at last second of all procs in case you get a gift buff and so you're in solar for the adds. Leave mushrooms down for the 2nd or third wave of adds (probably for 2nd set of 3m).

DoC is going to fall behind on every fight after like 2min. I'll check logs later in day if no one else gets to it.

On Galakras how are you approaching that? You should DoT every add w/ eclipse DoT (don't forget about the add that spawns by the tower either) and one uneclipse, then push a new eclipse when Nature's grace is starting to fall off.

On protectors it says you only used 1 set of 3min cds. Depending on how your guild pushes phases try to use 2nd set of cds during the 2nd bubble.

Up until two weeks ago I was just using Inc + HoTW but I had been doing some serious digging and had discovered that I could push better numbers using the talents I listed above. I think a lot of this is down to me not being used to the talent setup, but I could be wrong.

In regards to Sha -- Our guild does a weird thing where we have people split up onto the four prisons so hoping to be stacked for Gift buff is almost always out of the question. Also the melee throttles the adds so quickly wasting any GCD's on them has proven to be a dps loss for me. I could be wrong here.

For Galakras I put down shrooms at the top of the hill. Pop them as the adds spawn, obviously has DoC buff up, starfall, pop CA and the fun stuff, moonfire everything in sight, SS spam and re apply to key targets before it falls off. For the rest of the fight I eclipse DoT targets, cast HT when I have no SS procs so that I'm ready for the next eclipse and carry on as such.

Also, why do you say that DoC will fall behind on every fight after 2 mins? Especially on a fight like Protectors or Galakras?

[Aboubacar]

Up until two weeks ago I was just using Inc + HoTW but I had been doing some serious digging and had discovered that I could push better numbers using the talents I listed above. I think a lot of this is down to me not being used to the talent setup, but I could be wrong.

In regards to Sha -- Our guild does a weird thing where we have people split up onto the four prisons so hoping to be stacked for Gift buff is almost always out of the question. Also the melee throttles the adds so quickly wasting any GCD's on them has proven to be a dps loss for me. I could be wrong here.

For Galakras I put down shrooms at the top of the hill. Pop them as the adds spawn, obviously has DoC buff up, starfall, pop CA and the fun stuff, moonfire everything in sight, SS spam and re apply to key targets before it falls off. For the rest of the fight I eclipse DoT targets, cast HT when I have no SS procs so that I'm ready for the next eclipse and carry on as such.

Also, why do you say that DoC will fall behind on every fight after 2 mins? Especially on a fight like Protectors or Galakras?

For me I've actually had better results w/ inc/NV on Galakras but my clan doesn't have massive downtime between waves. I usually have time to communion, sometimes shrooms, but a HT on top of that is a bit crazy.

So for Sha I agree solar opener is better for your clan. At 570 ilvl I'm pretty sure treants is rarely going to pull ahead on single target if you're using 2nd set of CDs really well (at least have a meta gem up for it). Protectors? No way it's better because of the less nature's grace uptime. I can see where DoC would be better for really quick kills but your Protectors is like 6+ minutes. Wouldn't even be a consideration for me unless I was playing w/ 3 affi locks pushing sub 3min kills.

Your damage overall between the 2 weeks seems a bit low, hopefully someone else can come in and analyze the logs because I'm having trouble dissecting anything from this other than talent choice.

I know you're doing galakras completely wrong unless your waves are dying instantly from other classes. I have no issues consistently doing 450+ on this fight. I just clipped off the first wave of mobs in your Galakras log and you used all your cds and somehow dead last. Idk if you can explain your rotation for aoe packs like this? Any fights you're struggling on if you can say what your approach is it would help a little.

Talents shouldn't be a huge different in damage. You will go up and down ~50k dps every week just to RNG I think too or things out of your control, so if your concern is just why is this week worse than past weeks it's probably a lot of things out of your control, and maybe a few mistakes from you too, but 50k+ variations are normal atm I think

[Girthmonster]

I'm mainly thinking I should be getting way more out of my gear on average.

[Aboubacar]

well for starters, if you're going to try to do a lot of aoe on immerseus like that, you should start one cast pre-lunar and use no cds on the pull. By the time the adds spawn you'll be in solar and use all your cds, dot the boss, dot an add or too as it goes in, shrooms, hurricane. Ask DK before the fight where he's aoe gripping to, maybe try to track his location for it.

CD usage on Nazgrim should be everything on pull, then save your 3min for the 2nd berserker stance. then last one should be up for that lust you guys do at the end.

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and just looking at like 3-4 fights so far I've already found 2-3 encounters that are 6+ minutes where you only used 1 or 2 or even no CDs unless this log is bugged.
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...=58&options=16

[Girthmonster]

well for starters, if you're going to try to do a lot of aoe on immerseus like that, you should start one cast pre-lunar and use no cds on the pull. By the time the adds spawn you'll be in solar and use all your cds, dot the boss, dot an add or too as it goes in, shrooms, hurricane. Ask DK before the fight where he's aoe gripping to, maybe try to track his location for it.

CD usage on Nazgrim should be everything on pull, then save your 3min for the 2nd berserker stance. then last one should be up for that lust you guys do at the end.

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and just looking at like 3-4 fights so far I've already found 2-3 encounters that are 6+ minutes where you only used 1 or 2 or even no CDs unless this log is bugged.
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...=58&options=16

Uhhhhh so about that... what if I .. say.... forgot to adjust my CA macro to include Incarnation?..... Oh man, well that's embarrassing.


but I'm pretty sure that was only for that fight.

What I said above is actually I lie. I just double checked my macro and it is perfectly worded. For some reason, Incarnation wasn't popping on occasion. I don't know why. Like on Shamans, it popped times 2 and 3 but on the pull it did not. It was very strange. That seems to make a lot of sense though.

[splosher]

You shouldn't macro CA and INC together... You should have at least 2 separate cd buttons one with INC and one with CA and you can put your gloves/berserking into CA and make sure you mash it every minute when you're about to apply dots so that you actually use gloves, or if you are capable of keeping track of 4 cds then you should have 1 button for each of them because this will yield the highest possible dps.

If you want to do what most boomkins do that perform just fine (average) then just go HoTW/INC on everything. If you want to maximize your dps further then you can make a few swaps on fights like galakras and nazgrim. On galakras taking NV is good if your guild kills the adds quickly with you left there waiting on the next spawn because this means that you have more effective uptime on NV because some of the fight is just sitting around which makes it better than HoTW which is just sitting there giving you stats the whole fight. On nazgrim if your guild leaves the adds up (some casual guilds reset them before pulling) then DoC in the opener with shrooms blowing up after the Gorefiends Grasp with all your trinkets and cds up is better than hotw will do over the course of the fight, but this is mostly padding add dmg in the opener so it actually doesnt contribute to the boss dying faster so it may be frowned upon. On pretty much everything else HoTW is going to be fine and INC is best on everything from what I've seen treants are pretty much trash compared to INC with the new trinkets as op as they are which makes CD stacking that much better.

The other main things about maximizing dps are going to be the actual rotation since all of that above is just talent choices. Don't use hurricane unless you are in solar or lunar, but generally try to only use it in solar unless it can't be helped and there are a massive amount of adds which would make it ok to use in lunar. You can save starfall for add spawns, but if you have 2 targets then there is no reason to save it because it will only drop 1 star per second per target maxing out at 20 total stars which means 2 targets is going to maximize your starfall's potential fully. When it comes to nukes some people will say to cancel casts for SS procs, but thats 100% situational. If you need to slowly relocate yourself to a certain position then you should be cancel casting all nukes and slowly walk to that position with each SS proc for sure (that is a given, but you only have the GCD to move until you need to be casting another nuke) otherwise its probably best to finish all nuke casts and then unleash the SS proc because this relies the least on RNG, but if you like to gamble for procs then you could cancel the cast and use the proc which would only be a gain if you get another proc within the time that the cancelled nuke's cast was going to be. Lastly and probably most importantly, we are a dot class which I think a lot of people forget. Dots are a major part of your damage so maximizing their snapshots/critchance is going to be critical in maximizing dps. Depending on the value of your mastery your eclipse will change the power of your dots. If you have high mastery then you should probably be thinking about overriding dots without a mastery benefit once you enter an eclipse immediately. Otherwise, if you don't have high mastery (although most people in a high raiding environment do) then bindings procs/totem procs may be better than an eclipse if it isn't possible to get both to line up together (although it normally is which makes this point invalid) the reasoning being that while maybe the int proc itself wouldnt put the dot over the dps it would with an eclipse from the spellpower alone, but int actually gives crit and these int procs are massive so its actually a high amount of crit which does snapshot and allow for more SS procs. All in all though you want to make sure that you aren't refreshing your dots overly much because that is a loss of globals which does end up in a loss of nuke casts which ends up in a loss of eclipse movement and NG uptime. The rotation should be very fluid so make sure that you are maximizing dot strength while also maximizing the amount of nukes that you are casting per any given amount of time.

[Aboubacar]

Uhhhhh so about that... what if I .. say.... forgot to adjust my CA macro to include Incarnation?..... Oh man, well that's embarrassing.


but I'm pretty sure that was only for that fight.

What I said above is actually I lie. I just double checked my macro and it is perfectly worded. For some reason, Incarnation wasn't popping on occasion. I don't know why. Like on Shamans, it popped times 2 and 3 but on the pull it did not. It was very strange. That seems to make a lot of sense though.

It didn't go off because you were already on global from something, presumably a starsurge/moonfire etc. If you didn't notice something that big you might need to look into weak auras for your CDs, meta gem, starfall. Didn't check if you're using any of that properly. I can't dissect your DoTing behavior from a log either.

These CDs are often better staggered. It's not better 100% of the time to use both ca and inc together, so make separate keybinds.

[Girthmonster]

It didn't go off because you were already on global from something, presumably a starsurge/moonfire etc. If you didn't notice something that big you might need to look into weak auras for your CDs, meta gem, starfall. Didn't check if you're using any of that properly. I can't dissect your DoTing behavior from a log either.

These CDs are often better staggered. It's not better 100% of the time to use both ca and inc together, so make separate keybinds.

If using the Solar opener it is better to pop Inc and CA together. They are better staggered with the Lunar Opener, if I am not mistaken.

[Aboubacar]

If using the Solar opener it is better to pop Inc and CA together. They are better staggered with the Lunar Opener, if I am not mistaken.

correct. 10/chars

[Girthmonster]

correct. 10/chars

Also I thought Inc and CA were off the GCD so it didn't matter when or how you popped them? I'll have to test this again to verify.

[Aboubacar]

Also I thought Inc and CA were off the GCD so it didn't matter when or how you popped them? I'll have to test this again to verify.

Incarnation triggers an unchangeable 1.5second shapeshifting GCD. CA, berserking are both off the GCD and do not incur a GCD. I'm 100% certain.

[Girthmonster]

Incarnation triggers an unchangeable 1.5second shapeshifting GCD. CA, berserking are both off the GCD and do not incur a GCD. I'm 100% certain.

that I knew, but how would that affect inc not popping at the start of a fight?

[Aboubacar]

that I knew, but how would that affect inc not popping at the start of a fight?

I'm confused now? You usually seem to get off your first Incarnation, but often miss the 2nd or 3rd potential uses, because you are on GCD from other damaging spells.

Like I said, this would be fixed if you make a weak aura for incarnation and CA, then you can just hit your macro again, until it actually triggers incarnation. And if you did miss one at the start of a fight idk, you could have been on gcd from a pre-cast.

[Girthmonster]

I'm confused now? You usually seem to get off your first Incarnation, but often miss the 2nd or 3rd potential uses, because you are on GCD from other damaging spells.

Like I said, this would be fixed if you make a weak aura for incarnation and CA, then you can just hit your macro again, until it actually triggers incarnation. And if you did miss one at the start of a fight idk, you could have been on gcd from a pre-cast.

You're absolutely right. I never really thought of the fact that the Inc GCD might interfere with something already occurring and me missing out on my subsequent Incarnations. I had a WA for CA, but I do not have one for Incarnation. Maybe I should have one for that too. Sigh.

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Side note, you really think that Inc is superior to FoN on purely single target fights? Ie Malkorok?

[Aboubacar]

You're absolutely right. I never really thought of the fact that the Inc GCD might interfere with something already occurring and me missing out on my subsequent Incarnations. I had a WA for CA, but I do not have one for Incarnation. Maybe I should have one for that too. Sigh.

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Side note, you really think that Inc is superior to FoN on purely single target fights? Ie Malkorok?

yes at high gear levels, probably 540+

[Girthmonster]

What about on fights like H thok where treants can do dmg when you're not casting?

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Nevermind the above. Inc is far superior