1. #2181
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tierbook View Post
    Not sure how that is before Winter. Since it's a little small the light Green is gains made up to December 5th....
    That's because it's practically half a year from the beginning of the invasion. Do you know why it took so long? Longer (way longer) than PLANNED by Germans?
    Germans began having troubles in September, by which they planned to capture Moscow. Winter came when they were at Moscow. And winter in Moscow that early is not that cold - it's basically the same as in Berlin.

    The point is - they planned to do it sooner, but failed. Operation Barbarossa was a failure. And no not because of winter. But because of overconfidence. Read diaries of German officers.
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  2. #2182
    Elemental Lord Tierbook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    That's because it's practically half a year from the beginning of the invasion. Do you know why it took so long? Longer (way longer) than PLANNED by Germans?
    Germans began having troubles in September, by which they planned to capture Moscow. Winter came when they were at Moscow. And winter in Moscow that early is not that cold - it's basically the same as in Berlin.

    The point is - they planned to do it sooner, but failed. Operation Barbarossa was a failure. And no not because of winter. But because of overconfidence. Read diaries of German officers.
    The reason is because Barbarossa started later than planned, thanks to the Italians.
    You're a fine example of how gamer communities have become infested with endlessly whining and bitching, arrogant, opinionated, unreasonable, all the way immature, completely delusional, tendentially psychotic, insulting individuals one really doesn't want to be linked with. And playing with you guys is certainly no fun at all. I don't know where this kind of folks spawns from. Must be a nest somewhere ...
    A fine summarization of the community

  3. #2183
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Not really. Russia is much weaker today than in 1939 compared to what they are "potentially" facing.
    That's some unfounded bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Winter around Moscow is worse than winter in most populated regions of Western Europe or North America.
    Wha?? Where did you get that nonsense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    And I can tell you that people not used to -20 have issues
    in early December? Gettoutahere. -10 maximum. MAXIMUM, i,e, MINIMUM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Unprepared, and suffering from Stalin's stupidity, but not weak really.
    Stain was anything but stupid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tierbook View Post
    The reason is because Barbarossa started later than planned, thanks to the Italians.
    Nope. That doesn't explain why they advanced so slow.
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  4. #2184
    Elemental Lord Tierbook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post

    Nope. That doesn't explain why they advanced so slow.
    Well the invasion started in June, a little over a month after the planned start date, and by October the tanks were slowed down due to mud. Mud would still be an issue for any invasion of Russia today attacking the far eastern parts of Russia. Just look at the Kolyma highway at certain times of the year its almost impossible to traverse.
    You're a fine example of how gamer communities have become infested with endlessly whining and bitching, arrogant, opinionated, unreasonable, all the way immature, completely delusional, tendentially psychotic, insulting individuals one really doesn't want to be linked with. And playing with you guys is certainly no fun at all. I don't know where this kind of folks spawns from. Must be a nest somewhere ...
    A fine summarization of the community

  5. #2185
    Legendary! Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    That's some unfounded bullshit.

    Wha?? Where did you get that nonsense?


    in early December? Gettoutahere. -10 maximum. MAXIMUM, i,e, MINIMUM.


    Stain was anything but stupid.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Nope. That doesn't explain why they advanced so slow.
    Early December is when the advance ended, not when stalemate was broken. The coldest day on record for Moscow (less than -40) was in January of 1940.

    Moscow is on average 10F colder than Berlin, 20F colder than Paris and London, 10F colder than NYC, and while Denver has about the same average low, its winter highs are about 15F warmer.

    Stalin was stupid, just not AS stupid as Hitler

    The advance was slowed by mud and really really bad roads.

  6. #2186
    Welp, apparently, Poroshenko was an insider for US in 2006:

    https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06KIEV1706_a.html
    https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06KIEV2331_a.html

    Looks like some things don't change.

  7. #2187
    Quote Originally Posted by Creotor View Post
    Welp, apparently, Poroshenko was an insider for US in 2006:

    https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06KIEV1706_a.html
    https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06KIEV2331_a.html

    Looks like some things don't change.
    No, looks like you can't read.

    "Our Ukraine" was a Ukrainian political party.

    To say that someone is an "Our Ukranian insider" doesn't mean they are a US insider.

    It's like saying someone is a UK Independence Party insider. It just means they are important figures inside the relevant political party. The term insider in this context has nothing to do with their relation to the US.

    Top Ukranian politician meets US ambassador. More earth shattering revelations at 10.

  8. #2188
    Quote Originally Posted by Tierbook View Post
    Well the invasion started in June, a little over a month after the planned start date, and by October the tanks were slowed down due to mud. Mud would still be an issue for any invasion of Russia today attacking the far eastern parts of Russia. Just look at the Kolyma highway at certain times of the year its almost impossible to traverse.
    They couldn't have won regardless. The USSR had moved it's production and civilians in the far east and out producing both Germany and the Allies.

    http://media.nationalarchives.gov.uk...rld-war-three/
    Churchill’s top secret plan to attack the Soviet Empire was scheduled for 1 July 1945. British, US, Polish and German forces were to attempt to liberate East Germany and Poland and bring Stalin back to the conference table. If they did not succeed, Allied forces would be sucked into a Third World War. How close did Britain come to Armageddon in 1945?
    The reason Churchill didn't start a war with Stalin is, because he realized that Russia had 4 to 1 soldier and 2 to 1 tanks advantage over Britain and USA combined.

  9. #2189
    Scarab Lord Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Stuff like this is why I cannot take you seriously. (And why I don't think anyone else should, either.) You write well (better than most who share your views), you're usually on top of your facts (again, unlike most of those who share your views), but when it comes to analysis and synthesis, your praxis, you go off the deep end into blind support of whatever the establishment party line is. For example, here's you on foreign policy last year, singing the praises of the then-current "pivot to Asia":
    That's funny, because I've never taken you seriously. And it's not establishment. I just agree with it. And the pivot to Asia is still the thrust of US foreign policy. That is where the money is and where the focus is. The US Navy will grow to around 312 ships, while the US Army shrinks. Bases are opening in Asia and were scheduled to close in Europe (since canceled from the budget).

    The only difference between now and last year, is that instead of treating European Security as something we can half ass, we need to both defend Europe and defend East Asia at the same time now. From what it looks like, it seems to be a 50/30/20 spit for Asia-Pacific / Europe / Middle East in terms of focus. That's a change from the old plan, where Europe would have been like, single digits in terms of priorities.

    Are you surprised NATO has to now go through this planning regimine? It is planning for a long term containment of Russia, a plan it didn't fathom a year ago. Now it is starting from square one. I think that's good. You say it's blind support because you just don't agree with US foreign policy in many ways. Well I do. Sorry. I do. So when NATO says "this is how we're going to go about this" in Europe, or when the US says "in Asia-Pacific this is the plan", I'll generally agree and tout it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Now, in this thread and related threads, you can't praise Cold War version 2.0 enough. It's as though you're a waiter, committed to singing the praises of the Dish of the Day, no matter what it may be. So which is more important, 'encircling Russia' or 'pivoting to Asia'. (And, more importantly, what kind of idiocy in America's foreign policy establishment makes it "think" that antagonizing and isolating both China and Russia is a good idea?)
    Because even if Russia and China teamed up, and they won't beyond some superficial deals, our network of alliances dwarfs theirs, and the last time we faced off against a stronger Russia, they crumbled.

    As I said before, I subscribe to Realism in foreign policy. A realist abhors a unipolar system and embraces bipolarity as the most stable of international systems (don't even get me started on the ongoing joke that is multipolarity). I'd love to see Russia and China driven together, because the response - NATO united (as Russia has made it today) and our Asia-Pacific allies moving deeper and deeper into the US camp, being wealthier and militarizing themselves, has us on the winning side of that relationship.

    Basically I'm eager for our current unipolar world to give way to a bi-polar phase, where our supremacy is challenged. And I very much think that is a challenge we're we'll poised to win. Call it a means of renewal.

    So of course I want Cold War 2.0. Because I like the idea of an arc of very tightly bound allies against two common enemies who dominate the Asia continent, stretching from the Baltics to the US to Japan, a lot more than I like some kind of global free for all with the US the unipolar head.



    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    It was a parody of MasterCard commercials. From Russia's viewpoint, I very much expect that Crimea was and will be 'worth it', although, no, I certainly don't personally approve. (I doubt Putin or the Russian government cares, though.)
    I know very much what it was. I've seen it before. But given how in December, we were planning on mostly leaving Europe, and now the opposite is happening, I'm not sure how this at all comes out to a net-win for Putin. At the very moment we were about to go he... gives the US and NATO a reason to united closer than it has in decades at the precise time it needed a new mission? Imagine an alternate world where this didn't happen. Whither NATO after the Afghanistan mission concludes? It would be an alliance without a purpose. But in the world we live in, it's been given it's original purpose back.


    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Thanks for the link. I knew the strategic bomber fleet was in 'poor shape' but didn't realize just how bad, or how widespread the rot was. It'll be interesting to see how long it takes to (or if they even can reach) the readiness numbers they want. (For the sake of MAD, I guess I'd better hope that they do, and quickly.)
    MAD has been gone for years. Even under NewSTART, Russia is cutting it's missile numbers way below US levels. If you actually look at the terms of NewSTART, they're kind of obscene. The US has to submit to all sorts of inspections that the Russians dont have to reciprocate. Why is that? Did Obama roll over?

    Quite the contrary, he pretty much is giving Vladmir Putin political cover to severely weaken Russia's nuclear forces.

    US Nuclear Forces - the Minuteman III namely, and also our Nuclear Gravity bombs (not our Trident II-D5) are getting old. They'll likely have to be replaced in the early 2030s for fundamental safety reasons. But Russia's are older. Their day of reckoning is this decade. Russia's nuclear problem is the same as their conventional one. In short they:

    1) Want to Modernize it and replace the old stuff they have
    2) They can't retire their current inventory without significantly weakening their relative capabilities, so replacements need to be ready as current systems are retired
    3) Being a middle income country, they can't afford to both develop replacements while simultaneously fielding the systems to be replaced.

    Helicopters, submarines, ballistic missiles, tanks... it's a problem from the top to the bottom of the Russian military. It's not unique to them. The UK retired their Harrier jets for just that reason. The US cut the F-117 for just that reason. Russia is unique in that this is nearly everything... all their big ticket programs.

    Russia is modernizing it's nuclear forces. That process though will take decades. ANd to do that, via NewStart, they are cutting their nuclear forces way below the levels US is cutting them to in terms of launchers. So it is, for the sake of saving face, making the US submit to all sorts of inspections. And we're fine with it, because in the end, in a nuclear war, we'll have hundreds of more launchers than Russia will.

    So it wasn't Anti-Ballistic missile systems that killed MAD (that helped). It wasn't a technological revolution. It was that one side's rockets met the end of their lifetime, and they couldn't afford to replace them.

    Bulava, and maybe a new strategic bomber, will be ready by the end of next decade, but even if, for example, Russia is conducting 20 nuclear sub patrols a year (up from about 7 today), that's well below the 70 a year the USSR did, and below the 60 the US does today. And that's simply because Russia can't afford ballistic missile subs like the USSR could, or the US can. Without parity, which is what the US and USSR had, MAD is dead.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh not this crap again.

    Come back in 20 years and people will be still spewing the same garbage on the internet.

    Spoilers: they were doing it 20 years ago too.

    "Abandoning the dollar as the world reserve currency" is the cheapest, lamest anti-American titty twister there is. I shiver to think at the millions of calories lost across the decades as fanatical anti-American types have typed or penned away immense logical mazes as to why this time, it's really happening.

    Yeah of course China wants to replace the Dollar as the world's reserve currency. Just like they want to replace every internationalized thing they don't control. It's essentially item 574 on the list of things that happened that they didn't have a say over, wish they did, and are pissed about.

    And like most of the other 573 before it, it's a sad fact of life for them they'll whine about until the end of time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TooMuch View Post
    Only if he threatens me with physical harm he gets an infraction, but his continuously nation bashing is being unpunished all the time. Same with a lot of the other (especially US) posters. Better I get out of here because moderation of this thread is a joke.
    First, I don't Nation bash. Pointing on the immense number of Russia's defiencies and saying I want the US to have an antagonistic relationship with Russia (and China) is not me nation bashing. I don't hate Russia or hate China for being Russia or China. I simply do not subscribe remotely to any kind of one-worlder "lets' talk through our problems and cooperate" crap. My foreign policy positions are very clear: I'm a realist. I believe power is the the only currency in this system. And the US is better off by weakning it's enemies and strengthening itself and it's allies.

    And I call Russia an enemy. It may be weird to think about in a brave new world where we can talk to Russians on the internet. But when we're moving military assets to Europe, staging allied council meetings to plan defense... you don't do that against friendly nations. You do it against enemy ones.

    Russia is our enemy, and they should be treated like our enemy. If you don't agree, well, that's your opinion. NATO is pursuing my policy. It is not purusing yours. ringpriest said the right word...really the perfect word for me. Establishment. I am very, very establishment. Is that really a surprise when I count "power" as the coin of international relations? How could it be. Establishments are designed for accumulating, enriching and enabling the exertion of power. The NSA is an establishment. The US government is an establishment. NATO is an establishment. You know why I like Establishments? They're predictable and stable. When they decide on a course of action, it's damn hard to get them to adjust that course. I, who prize a certain kind of stability above all others, am very partial to establishments to this reason alone.

    You show me something that is not an establishment that you think is a better, more reliable alternative, I'll tell you why it isn't.

    And one more thing.

    I just want to tell you, there have been times I've gotten an infraction and been pissed. I thought it was ridiculous. Not this time though. I wrote what I said, knowing I'd get one. I took that infraction like a took an injection at the doctor's office, and felt like a million bucks over it.

    Cheers buddy. Cya in another thread.

  10. #2190
    Legendary! Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    They couldn't have won regardless. The USSR had moved it's production and civilians in the far east and out producing both Germany and the Allies.

    http://media.nationalarchives.gov.uk...rld-war-three/

    The reason Churchill didn't start a war with Stalin is, because he realized that Russia had 4 to 1 soldier and 2 to 1 tanks advantage over Britain and USA combined.
    The USSR may have been out producing Germany, but it was NOT outproducing the Allies. The USSR built ~106k tanks/SPGs, the US built ~102k and the UK ~120k. The USSR did make more artillary guns (about 84k more), but the USSR only built 197k trucks to the Allies over 3.9 million. Aircraft, USSR = ~143k, UK ~131k, and the US ~324k. Naval building? Russia didn't even reach 10% of US production.

    The US had abilities the Germans did not, not the least of which being nuclear weapons. My understanding is Russia had about 11 million troops total in 1945, the US had about 12 million in uniform, the UK had 2.9 million in the army alone. Your number do not add up.

  11. #2191
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    They couldn't have won regardless. The USSR had moved it's production and civilians in the far east and out producing both Germany and the Allies..
    USSR did never out producing Germany. Who proudest the most steel? Germany or USSR, it was Germany, did Germany have a surpluses of steel? No. Before you start to point out that USSR did make more X and Y Germany did "waste" loot of steel on submarines flack ammunition Atlantic wall etc things that never have to be built if it only was Germany vs USSR. To think USSR did out producing USA+England is a joke....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    The reason Churchill didn't start a war with Stalin is, because he realized that Russia had 4 to 1 soldier and 2 to 1 tanks advantage over Britain and USA combined.
    Or the world was to war fatigue to want a WW3, a counter if USSR was so superior then WHY did Stalin not take the opportunity and captured rest of west Europe, it was not that Stalin cared about human life....

  12. #2192
    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    No, looks like you can't read.

    "Our Ukraine" was a Ukrainian political party.

    To say that someone is an "Our Ukranian insider" doesn't mean they are a US insider.

    It's like saying someone is a UK Independence Party insider. It just means they are important figures inside the relevant political party. The term insider in this context has nothing to do with their relation to the US.

    Top Ukranian politician meets US ambassador. More earth shattering revelations at 10.
    Yeah, because sharing with a foreign official that "Tymoshenko could not be trusted, stressing that she was not candid and not "principled",

    "he thought Turchynov was innocent; the files had been destroyed by
    Turchynov's then-deputy at the SBU/now Tymoshenko Bloc
    MP-elect, Andriy Kozhemyakin. Poroshenko protested that he
    had "no motivation" to put pressure on Turchynov" is something that's not done by an insider.

  13. #2193
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    Blablabla.
    Just some quotes from your last few posts only (can go further back and then it even gets worse), and tell me why this is not nation bashing...

    I don't think their sorry excuse for an Air Force, filled with mostly Soviet Hand-Me-Downs, is up to the task. I don't think their competent, nor capable enough to do it.
    So really, Russia can "modernize" all it likes. It's been such a huge success so far.
    Yes seriously. B-2s are a reminder of what we're capable of, and Russia plainly isn't.
    So as I said... the Russian Air Force is a joke.
    You speak as if the Russian military is significantly more capable than Saddam Hussein's.
    All these are said with an underlying tone, which indicates the nation bashing.

    I just want to tell you, there have been times I've gotten an infraction and been pissed. I thought it was ridiculous. Not this time though. I wrote what I said, knowing I'd get one. I took that infraction like a took an injection at the doctor's office, and felt like a million bucks over it.
    Why do you think people find this hard to believe. Like I said, your keyboard was broken by the furious typing of your reply. I proved indeed you to be the person you deny to be: a psychopath. I'll repeat it: being butt hurt about 9/11 while having no problem with your own country killing thousands and thousands of people, leaving millions of people in an even worse situation than you (or the family in question). Or your remark about dancing when Bin Laden had been found and killed. Or your remark about fucking up your colleagues for your own gain. Or your remark about the way you behave in a game. Or even your last remark about "feeling a million bucks" about writing something on an internet forums. All signs of a mentally and emotional unstable person. Like Gabriel likes to say: "you lost the debate", because you could not do anything else than resort to threaten with physical violence. And even that is an empty threat, especially if you accuse others of being "keyboard warriors" thinking they are safe on the internet.

    Like said before, I am in Boston this week and if you are the big man you claim to be, come visit me. I'll PM you the hotel and room number. Let's see if you are such a hero in real life too, like you claim to be.

    Infracted - do not post just to attack others
    Last edited by Kasierith; 2014-06-11 at 05:30 PM.
    The real internet hero emerges (oh, the irony):
    This is the kind of shit people say behind a computer because they're safe. Say it to my face, and I'd break your fucking jaw. Piss off.

  14. #2194
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooMuch View Post
    Like said before, I am in Boston this week and if you are the big man you claim to be, come visit me. I'll PM you the hotel and room number. Let's see if you are such a hero in real life too, like you claim to be.
    Picking fights IRL over an internet post isn't exactly mature.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

    Cycling Logs: 2012, 2013, 2014 (YTD-9.30).

  15. #2195
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Picking fights IRL over an internet post isn't exactly mature.
    Well, he wanted to break my jaw, so let him try it. But then again I never claimed to be mature...
    The real internet hero emerges (oh, the irony):
    This is the kind of shit people say behind a computer because they're safe. Say it to my face, and I'd break your fucking jaw. Piss off.

  16. #2196
    Legendary! Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooMuch View Post
    Just some quotes from your last few posts only (can go further back and then it even gets worse), and tell me why this is not nation bashing...







    All these are said with an underlying tone, which indicates the nation bashing.



    Why do you think people find this hard to believe. Like I said, your keyboard was broken by the furious typing of your reply. I proved indeed you to be the person you deny to be: a psychopath. I'll repeat it: being butt hurt about 9/11 while having no problem with your own country killing thousands and thousands of people, leaving millions of people in an even worse situation than you (or the family in question). Or your remark about dancing when Bin Laden had been found and killed. Or your remark about fucking up your colleagues for your own gain. Or your remark about the way you behave in a game. Or even your last remark about "feeling a million bucks" about writing something on an internet forums. All signs of a mentally and emotional unstable person. Like Gabriel likes to say: "you lost the debate", because you could not do anything else than resort to threaten with physical violence. And even that is an empty threat, especially if you accuse others of being "keyboard warriors" thinking they are safe on the internet.

    Like said before, I am in Boston this week and if you are the big man you claim to be, come visit me. I'll PM you the hotel and room number. Let's see if you are such a hero in real life too, like you claim to be.

    Because what he said is true? It may not be flattering, but it is true and relevant to the topic at hand.

  17. #2197
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Because what he said is true? It may not be flattering, but it is true and relevant to the topic at hand.
    So as long as it is true, it is no nation bashing? Now I understand a lot better why the US is losing their claimed position as number one in the world. The level of education is just not as high as anywhere else, as shown by the US people posting here...

    See, no nation bashing because it's true...
    The real internet hero emerges (oh, the irony):
    This is the kind of shit people say behind a computer because they're safe. Say it to my face, and I'd break your fucking jaw. Piss off.

  18. #2198
    Legendary! Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooMuch View Post
    So as long as it is true, it is no nation bashing? Now I understand a lot better why the US is losing their claimed position as number one in the world. The level of education is just not as high as anywhere else, as shown by the US people posting here...

    See, no nation bashing because it's true...
    True and RELEVANT. One cannot discuss the sad state of the Russian Air Force without using negative wording. Besides, the comments at worst would be state bashing, not nation bashing, as they are directed to a facet of the Russian state, not the Russian nation. Now saying (for example) "Russians are knuckle dragging Neanderthals" is clearly nation bashing.
    Last edited by Kellhound; 2014-06-11 at 04:41 PM.

  19. #2199
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    True and RELEVANT. One cannot discuss the sad state of the Russian Air Force without using negative wording. Now saying Russians are knuckle dragging Neanderthals is clearly nation bashing.
    Like I said, it's the underlying tone that makes it nation bashing. The gloating, the "haha's" in posts, the ridiculing...
    The real internet hero emerges (oh, the irony):
    This is the kind of shit people say behind a computer because they're safe. Say it to my face, and I'd break your fucking jaw. Piss off.

  20. #2200
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    One cannot discuss the sad state of the Russian Air Force without using negative wording.
    Don't know about that. The T-50 seems pretty good. It improves massively upon the F-22 and will be far better than anything Europe has to offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Besides, the comments at worst would be state bashing, not nation bashing, as they are directed to a facet of the Russian state, not the Russian nation. Now saying (for example) "Russians are knuckle dragging Neanderthals" is clearly nation bashing.
    Lets not go through this and the previous thread digging for gems like "Russia has been behind everything in the last 500 years" or "USA should have Balkanized Russia in 1990".

    There is plenty of nation.

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