1. #7661
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    It was not occupied.
    Yeah those green men weren't Russian and Putin even said they weren't......fuck.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  2. #7662
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    I wonder if Russians is ok with China annexing Siberia aswell?
    Why would Russians be ok with Chinese military invasion into Siberia?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Top kek.

    When I ask my mates (or threaten someone) I normally hear what I want to. Doesn't make it correct though.
    Implying Russia threatened Crimea... OK.
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  3. #7663
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Implying Russia threatened Crimea... OK.
    The people on the ground definitely did.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  4. #7664
    It must have been MIND blowing when the curtain fell and the internet really picked up, and theese Russians learned that their govt had been lying for them and their parents for the major part of the 20th century.

    I don't doubt that denying it is alot easier, just as getting ruled by a dictator and take orders, is easier than building a democratic society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Why would Russians be ok with Chinese military invasion into Siberia?
    .
    Because China have claims to parts of Siberia, just like Putin claimed Crimea, I'm sure you've got no idea of this, but I doubt it's on the front page of RT's news coverage, according to your pov Russia and China are best pals lol.

  5. #7665
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    The people on the ground definitely did.
    You have proof?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    Because China have claims to parts of Siberia, just like Putin claimed Crimea, I'm sure you've got no idea of this, but I doubt it's on the front page of RT's news coverage, according to your pov Russia and China are best pals lol.
    You haven't answered my question.
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  6. #7666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Yet there are plenty of nations where such solutions actually work
    Regional autonomy can work - but not at the degree Russia was pushing for, and not when its a pretext for breaking up the country.

    And in country as divided as Ukraine that seemed like the only solution that could keep it together.
    The problem with it is that it was a recipe crafted to break Ukraine up. Those regions would have had their autonomy and they'd have Putoins cronies in charge by virtue of the armed volunteers who taken charge of the areas. They'd make deals with Russia, and tell Kiev where to go.

    And why should Putin care? Annexing Crimea, money drain that it is, gives him all those Black Sea mineral rights he's been trying to get for years. Stirring up trouble in Donetsk and Luhansk simply keeps Kiev busy.

    No observers said that elections were rigged, nor are there any reasons to consider them rigged. If Crimea is illegal then so does Kosovo.
    The observers who were kept out of the penninsula by the little green men? The men who Putin told the world weren't Russian soldiers until he went on TV and said they were? The referendum with a 93% In favor rate, a rate not even God could achieve in a fair contest? In a referendum boycotted by huge sections of the Crimean population? A referendum rushed through and overseen by a government who had seized power by the gun and support from the Russian military? A military whose armed presence was ever pervavsive on election day? A referendum which offered biased questions, little chance or opportunity for debate and where those saying no were "encouraged" to stay away.

    Crimeas so called referendum was a rigged contest organised by Russian cronies, supported by the Russian military, and vouched for by Russian political officers. In a land where two thirds opposed unification with Russia just a month or so previously.

    And treaty was about completely different matters.
    Russia agreed to recognise the borders of Ukraine. It did so by occupying Crimea and staging a rigged referendum. A nice new tactics....send in its own thugs to take over and browbeat the local population, then have those same thugs use a local mouthpiece to declare independence and use that as an excuse to send in the troops and arrange a rigged referendum to make it look all nice and cosy.

    Except we SAID many times how we would accept "stronger ties with EU"
    Why does Russia get to dictate what Ukraine does?

    Those sanctions are just excuse to set up trade barriers that were undermined by our accession into WTO. Nothing to do with "hurting your own people".
    If you didn't want free trade, you shouldn't have joined. Putins decision to strip food away from his people won't really hurt Europes farmers that much. But it will affect thoose in Russia.

    It's multi-year project that among other things will allow to provide gas to multiple Russian settlements along the way and expand surrounding infrastructure. It's not just a "pipe to transport gas", it's huge project with many benefits.
    And he's getting a price from the Chinese that's barely more than it costs to produce it. That isn't a huge foreign poilicy success. That's China driving a very hard bargain and him taking what he could get.

    EJL

  7. #7667
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    See my previous reply...
    This thread is collection of masterrace. Already 2 counted + 1 already forgot nickname.

  8. #7668
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    You haven't answered my question.
    Isnt it obvious?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmokri View Post
    This thread is collection of masterrace. Already 2 counted + 1 already forgot nickname.
    Because every person in Europe is a white supremacist... get real.

  9. #7669
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    Isnt it obvious?
    Because every person in Europe is a white supremacist... get real.
    Is it +1 counter? Please make some excuse like 'swastica is not related to nazis'.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Kasierith; 2014-08-10 at 04:33 PM.

  10. #7670
    Quote Originally Posted by mmokri View Post
    Is it +1 counter? Please make some excuse like 'swastica is not related to nazis'.
    So everyone from Europe who does not agree with the Russian move in Ukraine is a Nazi? is that what mom warned you about? sigh.

  11. #7671
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    Isnt it obvious?
    The only obvious thing here is that you are dodging.
    S.P.E.L.L. I.T. O.U.T. F.O.R. M.E. P.L.E.A.S.E.
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  12. #7672
    I'll copy paste for you.

    Don’t forget China’s claims on Russia

    However, there is one more territorial claim, which China currently keeps on the back burner. It is against – who else? – Mother Russia herself. During the age of European colonial expansion, the Celestial Empire (China) was effectively dominated by the European powers. However, it was never carved up the way other countries and continents were.

    With one exception: In the 19th century, China was forced to cede the Far East and parts of Siberia to Russia. During the 1960s and early 1970s, there were border tensions and even a number of armed clashes between China and the Soviet Union.

    Small parts of Russian territory were then quietly ceded to China — and more recently, the two agreed to accept the current borders — but China believes much larger chunks of what is now Russia rightfully belong to Russia.

    As if to settle these broader claims by osmosis, Chinese settlers have been steadily moving into Russia’s remote, economically depressed and underpopulated regions.

    Stupid Russia, patient China

    By asserting its historic sovereignty over Crimea, Russia has set a dangerous precedent for the Chinese as they look wistfully over their northern border. Those vast empty spaces of Russia’s Far East, full of all kinds of natural resources, are what China’s booming economy craves. And now its citizens live there too, much like ex-Soviet Russians residing in Crimea.

    Russia not so long ago agreed to preserve and defend Ukraine’s existing borders. Breaking that agreement in a moment of opportunity creates a precedent for other countries with alternative border preferences, including China, to follow suit if the relevant opportunities arise.

    True, Beijing will bide its time and will not do anything precipitous or unlawful. But when the time comes, it will not hesitate to re-assert its claims – and Russia will have no one to blame but Putin for providing a convenient excuse for a land grab, in the form of a powerful precedent in Crimea.

  13. #7673
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    You have proof?
    Yeah all those people illegally marching in and forcing a vote definitely were there with good intentions and did nothing bad, especially not with a vote that didn't have a "keep things as they are" option and then also armed men present for voting. There was nothing bad about that at all. It's almost like they didn't break the law.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  14. #7674
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Yeah all those people illegally marching in and forcing a vote definitely were there with good intentions and did nothing bad, especially not with a vote that didn't have a "keep things as they are" option and then also armed men present for voting. There was nothing bad about that at all. It's almost like they didn't break the law.
    Do I need to repeat the question?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    I'll copy paste for you.
    Still you haven't answered my question. Have you forgotten it? Do I need to repeat it?
    My Little Borg: Friendship is Irrelevant

  15. #7675
    God, you really dont get it do you? if Russians are ok with a Russian invasion into Crimea, how could they possible take a morale stance if china decided to do the same in Siberia? is it that hard to figure out? geesh.

  16. #7676
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    God, you really dont get it do you? if Russians are ok with a Russian invasion into Crimea, how could they possible take a morale stance if china decided to do the same in Siberia? is it that hard to figure out? geesh.
    Except there was no Russian Invasion into Crimea.
    My Little Borg: Friendship is Irrelevant

  17. #7677
    haha, predictable answer.

    I'm sure China will claim the same thing, because in Russia it's not an invasion when you put your soldiers on foreign soil.

  18. #7678
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Except there was no Russian Invasion into Crimea.
    Even your Putin recognized it. Get with the times.
    Military personal entering a foreign soil without being allowed to : Invasion.

  19. #7679
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Except there was no Russian Invasion into Crimea.
    You don't get it, nobody in China will give a flying fuck about what some random MMOC poster thinks.
    Russia is not Imperialistic by definition. Because Russia doesn't take territories, it takes their own people back. They just so happen to be tied to territories, ex-Russian territories, while we are at it. West is Imperialistic though. It wants to take that that isn't theirs to begin with. EU expansion is Imperialistic, NATO expansion is Imperialistic. ...Soviet Union is the same thing as EU (European Union). I really don't understand the joke.

  20. #7680
    Anyhow, this article is quite interesting regarding the challenges Russia face, not sure why their focus is on Ukraine, when bigger issues seem to arise, I guess they gave up already.

    http://chinadailymail.com/2014/07/05...claim-siberia/

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