1. #11721
    Herald of the Titans Ravenblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Meanwhile:

    Spiegel posts that NATO admits defeat of Kiev in Eastern Ukraine: original (google translate)

    Human Rights Watchs posts about situation in Luhansk:
    I am surprised that you don't mind the article speaking of Russian troops fighting Ukrainian troops.

    ps: also from Spiegel Online: this article.
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  2. #11722
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    I have to disagree. Over the last century, US has gone many extra miles to support and protect the Saudi monarchy, while doing nothing to reform or reign in a government that encourages the most radical islamic sects, funds terrorists, and is nearly as bad as ISIS on human rights.
    Doing nothing to rein in their government is not the same thing as causing their human rights violations. Hell, when we do try to influence foreign governments, we get into far MORE trouble.
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  3. #11723
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenblade View Post
    I am surprised that you don't mind the article speaking of Russian troops fighting Ukrainian troops.
    As long as result is right i don't care which delusions lead you to it. If Poroshenko decided to explain his recent defeats by "Russians are coming!!!", or forced to change his assessments from NATO side, it's fine; as long as he withdraws his forces, stops shelling cities, and starts talking on non-ultimatum terms.

  4. #11724
    I don't really understand US posters who trully belive that the country don't have any strategic interests in the world.

    Most of small local conflicts US organised made America richer (or atleast some people in US). GDP increasing, most of people have jobs, patriotic feelings are through the roof.
    If something is good for someone it's not always good for everyone else.
    Last edited by malgin; 2014-09-02 at 09:57 PM.

  5. #11725
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenblade View Post
    ps: also from Spiegel Online: this article.
    Check Human Rights Watch reports - it's exactly about topic of shelling cities this article tries to cover.

  6. #11726
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Granted, and I think we should stop supporting Israel.



    We're not at fault there.


    Granted.



    Our involvement in overthrowing their government is not the cause of their current predicament.



    Not at all blind, and they'd behave that way regardless of our involvement. We didn't start that fire.



    Their troubles there hardly started with us.



    How is Pakistan's issues our fault?



    Those groups were formed in response to the Russian invasion. The US supported their fight against Russia, but Russia created them, not us.




    Yeah, the Iraq situation is fucked up, and I blame Bush and company for that. Syria is on Assad, though, not the United States.

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    The US did not create the Thai government, but they seem to be running the country OK.

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    All of those countries are in Asia.
    Israel and Syria are not in Asia, nor is Iran. I guess Pakistan is.

  7. #11727
    I am Murloc! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Doing nothing to rein in their government is not the same thing as causing their human rights violations. Hell, when we do try to influence foreign governments, we get into far MORE trouble.
    Right, the United States establishment only closes its eyes and doesn't say anything while the Saudi government chops off womens heads, persecutes homosexuals, and funds jihadis. Oh wait, the US arms their military, too.

    The relevant phrase is "aiding and abetting".


    “The President values the King’s insights, and looks forward to meeting with him in person to discuss a very robust agenda"

    Fuck. That. Shit.

  8. #11728
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcellus1986 View Post
    Israel and Syria are not in Asia, nor is Iran. I guess Pakistan is.
    This is Asia:

    It includes all those countries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Right, the United States establishment only closes its eyes and doesn't say anything while the Saudi government chops off womens heads, persecutes homosexuals, and funds jihadis. Oh wait, the US arms their military, too.

    The relevant phrase is "aiding and abetting".


    “The President values the King’s insights, and looks forward to meeting with him in person to discuss a very robust agenda"

    Fuck. That. Shit.
    They'd be doing it whether or not we armed their military. And we get blamed for every damned thing if we try to exert any kind of influence over a country's leadership. Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing.
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  9. #11729
    I am Murloc! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malgin View Post
    I don't really understand US posters who trully belive that the country don't have any strategic interests in the world.

    Most of small local conflicts US organised made America richer (or atleast some people in US). GDP increasing, most of people have jobs, patriotic feelings are through the roof.
    If something is good for someone it's not always good for everyone else.
    Fractally wrong neocolonial apologism at its finest.

  10. #11730
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    I'd say the way Japan and South Korea turned out, in large part thanks to the US, are at least a counter to what we've done in the ME.... if anything it's kind of telling to the difference between countries for and against us.

  11. #11731
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    This is Asia:

    It includes all those countries.
    The problem is that "Asia" is a cultural region more than a geographical region. A "continent" in geologists terms is a large landmass connected by a continental shelf. Under this definition, there are only 4 main continents: America, Afroeurasia, Australia and Antarctica. I'll throw in Zealandia for shits.

    "(South)west Asia" as it is occasionally called is culturally distinct from "Central Asia", "North Asia", "South Asia", "Southeast Asia" and "East Asia".

    If you want to talk about Plate tectonics, then the Arabian plate only recently (geological time here) separated from Africa, so that's what I would consider it a part of.

    But yes, technically, Israel and Syria could be considered a part of Asia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zehnn View Post
    What are you, the citation police?

  12. #11732
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcellus1986 View Post
    You said Asia... None of the countries you're talking about are in Asia
    Oh Jesus Christ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Granted, and I think we should stop supporting Israel.



    We're not at fault there.


    Granted.



    Our involvement in overthrowing their government is not the cause of their current predicament.



    Not at all blind, and they'd behave that way regardless of our involvement. We didn't start that fire.



    Their troubles there hardly started with us.



    How is Pakistan's issues our fault?



    Those groups were formed in response to the Russian invasion. The US supported their fight against Russia, but Russia created them, not us.




    Yeah, the Iraq situation is fucked up, and I blame Bush and company for that. Syria is on Assad, though, not the United States.

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    The US did not create the Thai government, but they seem to be running the country OK.

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    All of those countries are in Asia.
    Syria: well, the rebels have been given support since the beginning. An internal war supposed to last 3 months lasting 3 years?

    Iran: oh hell yeah It absolutely is. This is what you get when you mess with internal politics so much. Iran before the coup was well ahead of its time.

    Saudi arabia: yes, absolutely blind. You're after selling 16 BILLIONS of weapons to a country run by sultans. Saudi Arabia, like Israel, is a perfect example of how NOT to carry out foreign policies, and Saudi Arabia, like Israel, will be a problem in the future for the international community. Like Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan. (Mind you I'm keeping to Asia, I won't mention Libya and Egypt and well, the rest of the world).

    Afganistan: well, rebels were brewed and trained specifically to fight Russia in Afghanistan. Whatever skro says, they didn't magically transform into the talibans all of a sudden. This is exactly what happens when you fuck around the globe at random.

    Pakistan: well that's where the "taliban" came from. Military government kept in place for how long... 30 years? 40 years? A nuclear power used as a terrorist breeding ground for a decade and look... now its in a mess. How surprising.

    Sorry for the lengthy post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tierbook View Post
    I'd say the way Japan and South Korea turned out, in large part thanks to the US, are at least a counter to what we've done in the ME.... if anything it's kind of telling to the difference between countries for and against us.
    You mean... nuking a country and dividing another?

  13. #11733
    Djalil, just stop talking about Korea and Japan. It's more than obvious by now that you have no clue what you're blabbing about.

  14. #11734
    Banned Tierbook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Oh Jesus Christ...

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    Syria: well, the rebels have been given support since the beginning. An internal war supposed to last 3 months lasting 3 years?

    Iran: oh hell yeah It absolutely is. This is what you get when you mess with internal politics so much. Iran before the coup was well ahead of its time.

    Saudi arabia: yes, absolutely blind. You're after selling 16 BILLIONS of weapons to a country run by sultans. Saudi Arabia, like Israel, is a perfect example of how NOT to carry out foreign policies, and Saudi Arabia, like Israel, will be a problem in the future for the international community. Like Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan. (Mind you I'm keeping to Asia, I won't mention Libya and Egypt and well, the rest of the world).

    Afganistan: well, rebels were brewed and trained specifically to fight Russia in Afghanistan. Whatever skro says, they didn't magically transform into the talibans all of a sudden. This is exactly what happens when you fuck around the globe at random.

    Pakistan: well that's where the "taliban" came from. Military government kept in place for how long... 30 years? 40 years? A nuclear power used as a terrorist breeding ground for a decade and look... now its in a mess. How surprising.

    Sorry for the lengthy post.

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    You mean... nuking a country and dividing another?
    The Koreas were divided before the war, also South Korea and Japan are 2 of the most advanced nations on the planet. The North/South divide on the Korean peninsula is pretty obvious for instance.

  15. #11735
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcellus1986 View Post
    Djalil, just stop talking about Korea and Japan. It's more than obvious by now that you have no clue what you're blabbing about.
    This coming from the one who doesn't know geography?
    You'll have to do a lot better kid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tierbook View Post
    The Koreas were divided before the war, also South Korea and Japan are 2 of the most advanced nations on the planet. The North/South divide on the Korean peninsula is pretty obvious for instance.
    Not by their own will mind you.

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    Funny detail: south korea looks a lot like Ireland.

  16. #11736
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    This coming from the one who doesn't know geography?
    You'll have to do a lot better kid.

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    Not by their own will mind you.

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    Funny detail: south korea looks a lot like Ireland.
    Ya I'm sure South Korea hates having a high living standard, electricity and food.

  17. #11737
    Quote Originally Posted by Tierbook View Post
    Ya I'm sure South Korea hates having a high living standard, electricity and food.
    And a nuclear madman a few miles away.

    Yes I'm pretty sure having an ancient country divided due to foreign power decision doesn't feel good.

  18. #11738
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    And a nuclear madman a few miles away.

    Yes I'm pretty sure having an ancient country divided due to foreign power decision doesn't feel good.
    Well would you rather have a nuclear madman as your leader or your neighbor.... and by leader I mean the guy who put you in a concentration camp.

  19. #11739
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    This coming from the one who doesn't know geography?
    You'll have to do a lot better kid.

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    Not by their own will mind you.

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    Funny detail: south korea looks a lot like Ireland.
    Israel and Palestine, as well as Iran and Saudia Arabia aren't in Asia. Unless you're using terms from antiquity, then you might have an argument.

  20. #11740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcellus1986 View Post
    Israel and Palestine, as well as Iran and Saudia Arabia aren't in Asia. Unless you're using terms from antiquity, then you might have an argument.
    I believe they are using the commonly accepted terms for those areas.....

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