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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    Call of the Elements – For Resto, it's a very minor (as in <1%) throughput increase by giving you an extra HST effectively every 6 minutes. For the other specs, there is situational use on some fights in getting double Tremor totems or maybe even double Capacitor/Windwalk totems, but that's very rare.
    Totemic Persistence – For Resto, it's also a minor throughput increase about in line with Call of the Elements by letting you maintain maximum HST and MTT usage without having to worry about water totem talent clash. Very limited benefit for the other specs.
    Not every talent tier is about throughput. This talent tier certainly never has been and probably never will be about that. And of course the talents are situational, you are supposed to change them based on the different situations you’ll encounter. It might be rare now, some 20-30 weeks into farming Siege, but come next expansion with 20man raiding, there will be less players to do these “situational jobs”, so having shamans actually use their totems might end up happening a lot more frequently. If they ever put you on stun duty, you’ll be happy Totemic Projection is still a thing, or if you’re the only shaman in the raid and multiple fears or snares needs to be broken, you’ll want to have CotE still be in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by shamantime View Post
    I literally lol'd at your post, especially the bold. I PvP with TPro all the time because it's the only way I can reliably get two major CCs off. Relying on a 45secCD Poly and an interrupt against melee teams isn't going to help you.
    At rating 2200 or higher, with 97% of Resto, 90% of Enhancement and 78% of Elemental Shamans all taking Call of the Elements over the other two talent, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Call of the Elements is the “right” choice. If you and your team can make Projection work, then that just proves my point:

    “Also, having a talent be more useful for one spec or for one type of gameplay (PvE/PvP) is fine and to be expected. What makes this tier great is that even though certain talents favor certain specs or situations, all specs can still find use of the different talents (at least if you try).”

  2. #82
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irisia View Post
    Not every talent tier is about throughput. This talent tier certainly never has been and probably never will be about that. And of course the talents are situational, you are supposed to change them based on the different situations you’ll encounter. It might be rare now, some 20-30 weeks into farming Siege, but come next expansion with 20man raiding, there will be less players to do these “situational jobs”, so having shamans actually use their totems might end up happening a lot more frequently. If they ever put you on stun duty, you’ll be happy Totemic Projection is still a thing, or if you’re the only shaman in the raid and multiple fears or snares needs to be broken, you’ll want to have CotE still be in the game.
    If you're the only viable stun in a 20man raid your gm/officers should just give up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    If you're the only viable stun in a 20man raid your gm/officers should just give up.
    How is that what you take away from what he posted? I truly cannot fathom that you're using the argument of "other people should be available to do my job for me because my ability is clunky" to undermine what he said, which is perfectly reasonable.
    Enhancement Shaman / Feral Druid

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  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    How is that what you take away from what he posted? I truly cannot fathom that you're using the argument of "other people should be available to do my job for me because my ability is clunky" to undermine what he said, which is perfectly reasonable.
    His point, I'd say, was that there's hardly any shaman totems with effects offsetting totem drawbacks to such an extend a raid would put shamans on stun duty or similar, when it involves totems. Frankly, if a raid relies on totems like CPT, it's a lost case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
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  5. #85
    Moderator Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irisia View Post
    Not every talent tier is about throughput. This talent tier certainly never has been and probably never will be about that. And of course the talents are situational, you are supposed to change them based on the different situations you’ll encounter. It might be rare now, some 20-30 weeks into farming Siege, but come next expansion with 20man raiding, there will be less players to do these “situational jobs”, so having shamans actually use their totems might end up happening a lot more frequently. If they ever put you on stun duty, you’ll be happy Totemic Projection is still a thing, or if you’re the only shaman in the raid and multiple fears or snares needs to be broken, you’ll want to have CotE still be in the game.


    At rating 2200 or higher, with 97% of Resto, 90% of Enhancement and 78% of Elemental Shamans all taking Call of the Elements over the other two talent, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Call of the Elements is the “right” choice. If you and your team can make Projection work, then that just proves my point:

    “Also, having a talent be more useful for one spec or for one type of gameplay (PvE/PvP) is fine and to be expected. What makes this tier great is that even though certain talents favor certain specs or situations, all specs can still find use of the different talents (at least if you try).”
    That just proves that the other two talents are absolute shit for PvP. While in PvE it averages out somewhat, there's no reason to defend - let alone justify this tier. It's not engaging and its effects are beyond abysmal. The fact that you could not choose any of these talents and your performance at best would marginally change clearly points out the lack of talent design and innovation in this tier.

    I'm over arguing for a mobility tier, as we're never going to get one because they don't do anything besides keep us in a corner and throw band-aid fixes at us, adding to the complexity and clunky design we have. My argument here is improving on this tier, and if it has to stay totem-related then so be it, but no one in their right mind, 2200 rated player, Heroic raider or otherwise can stand there and tell me that they actually enjoy it, and if given the option, wouldn't completely replace it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    His point, I'd say, was that there's hardly any shaman totems with effects offsetting totem drawbacks to such an extend a raid would put shamans on stun duty or similar, when it involves totems. Frankly, if a raid relies on totems like CPT, it's a lost case.
    Definitely. Anyone in their right mind would never put a Shaman on stun duty when there are much better and more reliable stuns that other classes have.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    His point, I'd say, was that there's hardly any shaman totems with effects offsetting totem drawbacks to such an extend a raid would put shamans on stun duty or similar, when it involves totems. Frankly, if a raid relies on totems like CPT, it's a lost case.
    Well if that was indeed his point then it's a moot point, given that cap has been useful on a number of fights this tier as a stun. It is effectively a worse version of leg sweep because it has to be pre-planned, but a lot of time you actually have got time to pre-plan for these things in raids

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitheqt View Post
    Definitely. Anyone in their right mind would never put a Shaman on stun duty when there are much better and more reliable stuns that other classes have.
    And yet, Shaman were used and continue to be used on two of the fights that need AoE stuns the most (Siegecrafter and Garrosh) because you are given more than enough time to prepare for the stun to go off. As I said it's a worse version of leg sweep, but it can also be done at range through projection. In relative terms if you factor in projection, the only stun that actually compares as a ranged stun is Shadowfury, that is instant, but is also 2 seconds shorter; and Binding Shot, which requires just as much setup as Cap does.
    Enhancement Shaman / Feral Druid

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  7. #87
    Dreadlord Aurokk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    and Binding Shot, which requires just as much setup as Cap does.
    Disagree on this one, if you hit the placement of Binding you can't fail it because everything gets instantly affected by it. On the other hand Capacitor has to be planned much more due to the timing nature of the charge time. On top of the totem not actually being in the exact spot you shoot projection in.

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  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Irisia View Post
    Not every talent tier is about throughput. This talent tier certainly never has been and probably never will be about that. And of course the talents are situational, you are supposed to change them based on the different situations you’ll encounter. It might be rare now, some 20-30 weeks into farming Siege, but come next expansion with 20man raiding, there will be less players to do these “situational jobs”, so having shamans actually use their totems might end up happening a lot more frequently. If they ever put you on stun duty, you’ll be happy Totemic Projection is still a thing, or if you’re the only shaman in the raid and multiple fears or snares needs to be broken, you’ll want to have CotE still be in the game.


    At rating 2200 or higher, with 97% of Resto, 90% of Enhancement and 78% of Elemental Shamans all taking Call of the Elements over the other two talent, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Call of the Elements is the “right” choice. If you and your team can make Projection work, then that just proves my point:

    “Also, having a talent be more useful for one spec or for one type of gameplay (PvE/PvP) is fine and to be expected. What makes this tier great is that even though certain talents favor certain specs or situations, all specs can still find use of the different talents (at least if you try).”
    I wasn't trying to prove you wrong, just saying that CotE didn't have to be the "right choice." If anything, the totem tier shows the fact that Blizzard has no unique ideas for Shaman's Totem System. Totems are clunky and archaic compared to other mechanics. We still have our DPS cooldowns tied to totems. "Oh you go too far from your Elemental's totem? Oh guess it has to despawn!" We still have one elemental totem out per school. We have to spec into a talent to allow us to drop two of the same totem. Lastly, we have to spec into a talent to allow our totems to have some semblance of mobility even though the Shaman community has been asking for this for YEARS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    Well if that was indeed his point then it's a moot point, given that cap has been useful on a number of fights this tier as a stun. It is effectively a worse version of leg sweep because it has to be pre-planned, but a lot of time you actually have got time to pre-plan for these things in raids



    And yet, Shaman were used and continue to be used on two of the fights that need AoE stuns the most (Siegecrafter and Garrosh) because you are given more than enough time to prepare for the stun to go off. As I said it's a worse version of leg sweep, but it can also be done at range through projection. In relative terms if you factor in projection, the only stun that actually compares as a ranged stun is Shadowfury, that is instant, but is also 2 seconds shorter; and Binding Shot, which requires just as much setup as Cap does.
    No way in hell. Binding Shot's effects are instant and create a 3 sec pvp stun affect BASELINE. Shaman's have a totem that charges for 5 secs and stuns BASELINE. If you want it to charge a measly 2 seconds earlier, say goodbye to a glyph spot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    Well if that was indeed his point then it's a moot point, given that cap has been useful on a number of fights this tier as a stun. It is effectively a worse version of leg sweep because it has to be pre-planned, but a lot of time you actually have got time to pre-plan for these things in raids



    And yet, Shaman were used and continue to be used on two of the fights that need AoE stuns the most (Siegecrafter and Garrosh) because you are given more than enough time to prepare for the stun to go off. As I said it's a worse version of leg sweep, but it can also be done at range through projection. In relative terms if you factor in projection, the only stun that actually compares as a ranged stun is Shadowfury, that is instant, but is also 2 seconds shorter; and Binding Shot, which requires just as much setup as Cap does.
    No way in hell. Binding Shot's effects are instant and create a 3 sec pvp stun affect BASELINE. Shaman's have a totem that charges for 5 secs and stuns BASELINE. If you want it to charge a measly 2 seconds earlier, say goodbye to a glyph spot. I would rather have an instant 3 sec stun than a 5 sec charge stun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chubathingy View Post
    But anyway it's OK to be jelly of the tallest midget.

  9. #89
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    And yet, Shaman were used and continue to be used on two of the fights that need AoE stuns the most (Siegecrafter and Garrosh) because you are given more than enough time to prepare for the stun to go off. As I said it's a worse version of leg sweep, but it can also be done at range through projection. In relative terms if you factor in projection, the only stun that actually compares as a ranged stun is Shadowfury, that is instant, but is also 2 seconds shorter; and Binding Shot, which requires just as much setup as Cap does.
    Stunning on garrosh is a debatable, not a real benefit - a lot of people dislike it and wouldn't call it "needed". And given a monks movement capabilities? Leg sweep is entirely comparable for the timer given on cap, too.

    On top of that, binding shot = cap lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Stunning on garrosh is a debatable, not a real benefit - a lot of people dislike it and wouldn't call it "needed". And given a monks movement capabilities? Leg sweep is entirely comparable for the timer given on cap, too.

    On top of that, binding shot = cap lol.
    Binding Shot is ranged, a stun under the conditions of something moving out of it, and lasts 5 seconds. Positioning for large numbers to be caught in it is as awkward as cap, if not moreso. "= cap lol" is not exactly refuting the fact that functionally it serves the same cavaet, a highly situational long duration stun. If you haven't actually got anything to refute my point trying to undermine me is pathetic.

    Leg Sweep is also not comparable on a fight such as siegecrafter in which going into melee is something you regularly can not do. I feel like you are looking at these entirely in some sort of bubble to make it seem like the ability is far worse than it is. Garrosh is not debateable, cap is INCREDIBLY good on Garrosh Transition P1 with no doubt in the mind of anyone who has actually done the fight.

    In relation to Shamantime though, diving on Binding Shot to avoid actually answering the point of Cap being something that has and will continue to be used in raiding however is a very obvious attempt at diversion. (oh and Binding shot is not BASELINE, it is a talent. Something you seem to forget when complaining about charge time reduction being tied into a glyph slot.) It is not about your preferrence as to what you would rather have, it is that Cap fulfills a role that isn't actually filled by other things and whilst it is niche, so is a very, very large amount of other utilities, which is what diversifies classes based on utility.
    Last edited by wordup; 2014-05-27 at 12:09 AM.
    Enhancement Shaman / Feral Druid

    “All things are subject to interpretation, whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.”

  11. #91
    In my opinion:

    1) Call of the Elements: sounds good in theory but in practice rarely useful, the totems it affects have relatively short cooldowns to begin with and are highly situational. Don't think I've ever used it even when I chose the talent.

    2) Totemic Persistence: also extremely situational, like if you need an earthbind at the same time as your earth elemental... but how often does that seriously happen? Maybe in PVP? I guess its main use is Healing Tide not cancelling your Healing Stream, but it's hardly any loss and you can just drop a stream as soon as tide ends... marginal I'd say. Arguably should be baseline (and apply to fire totems), it's a nuisance in the rare event that it comes up and taking a talent to avoid it just feels lame.

    3) Totemic Projection: I think you guys are underrating this, in Challenge Modes it's indispensable. Sure it's lackluster in raids but so is a lot of utility.

    Overall, not a thrilling tier. Could definitely use some love.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    Binding Shot is ranged, a stun under the conditions of something moving out of it, and lasts 5 seconds. Positioning for large numbers to be caught in it is as awkward as cap,
    Well... I wouldn't say that. Cap totem has the arming time to deal with. BS is definitely easier to use.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    His point, I'd say, was that there's hardly any shaman totems with effects offsetting totem drawbacks to such an extend a raid would put shamans on stun duty or similar, when it involves totems. Frankly, if a raid relies on totems like CPT, it's a lost case.
    I’m not entirely sure what that means, but I think you might have misunderstood what I said. What I was trying to say is that a lot of shamans are not being asked to do special jobs, not because we can’t do them effectively, but simply because people are not used to having shamans do these jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    His point, I'd say, was that there's hardly any shaman totems with effects offsetting totem drawbacks to such an extend a raid would put shamans on stun duty or similar, when it involves totems. Frankly, if a raid relies on totems like CPT, it's a lost case.
    And that’s just bullshit. If you can’t use Capacitor Totem reliably, then it’s 100% the players fault.

    It was me and another elemental shaman at the time who took care of stunning adds on Will of the Emperor Heroic and the Ball Lightnings on Lei Shen Heroic. Instead of wasting 3 or more warlock globals on shadowfurys (remember, killing the Ball Lightnings was a dps race) you could have two shamans rotate Capacitor Totems. Not only could the totems be summoned before the Ball Lightnings even spawned, wasting 0 globals on stuns that could otherwise be spent on damage, but the stun is a 5 second wide range AoE stun, a much more reliable and beneficial stun than any other stun, any other class could bring. Why so few guild utilized shaman stuns on that fight, I simply don’t understand. I guess the shamans either didn’t want to/didn’t know how to use the totem, or the raid leaders just didn’t know the totem even existed.

    Also, you had to use Capacitor together with Totemic Projection to make it work for both fights, so I guess this serves as another win for our level 45 talents!
    Last edited by Irisia; 2014-05-27 at 03:44 AM.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    His point, I'd say, was that there's hardly any shaman totems with effects offsetting totem drawbacks to such an extend a raid would put shamans on stun duty or similar, when it involves totems. Frankly, if a raid relies on totems like CPT, it's a lost case.
    Well, I think that Healing Tide Totem is more powerfull for being a totem than a casted or channeled spell...

    Quote Originally Posted by Irisia View Post
    Also, you had to use Capacitor together with Totemic Projection to make it work for both fights, so I guess this serves as another win for our level 45 talents!
    I won't say that that is something to praise Totemic Projection, it's his job to do that, I would even say that the position the totem will be placed at the square of the reticule is something that could be improved upon.
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  14. #94
    Moderator Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irisia View Post
    I’m not entirely sure what that means, but I think you might have misunderstood what I said. What I was trying to say is that a lot of shamans are not being asked to do special jobs, not because we can’t do them effectively, but simply because people are not used to having shamans do these jobs.



    And that’s just bullshit. If you can’t use Capacitor Totem reliably, then it’s 100% the players fault.

    It was me and another elemental shaman at the time who took care of stunning adds on Will of the Emperor Heroic and the Ball Lightnings on Lei Shen Heroic. Instead of wasting 3 or more warlock globals on shadowfurys (remember, killing the Ball Lightnings was a dps race) you could have two shamans rotate Capacitor Totems. Not only could the totems be summoned before the Ball Lightnings even spawned, wasting 0 globals on stuns that could otherwise be spent on damage, but the stun is a 5 second wide range AoE stun, a much more reliable and beneficial stun than any other stun, any other class could bring. Why so few guild utilized shaman stuns on that fight, I simply don’t understand. I guess the shamans either didn’t want to/didn’t know how to use the totem, or the raid leaders just didn’t know the totem even existed.
    I want whatever you're smoking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irisia View Post
    Also, you had to use Capacitor together with Totemic Projection to make it work for both fights, so I guess this serves as another win for our level 45 talents!
    That's not a win at all; that basically just glorifies the fact that Capacitor Totem is that shit that you need a talent to make it useful which is bad class design. And I don't know any other abilities that go from being "useless" as baseline, to "half-decent" when you take a talent. Need I even mention the Glyph that only further proves how disgusting the design is?

    So that's what it is, our totem tier is balanced around the fact that our entire totem tier is shit and we have to take one of these to band-aid fix them? That sounds a lot like something Blizzard would do for us, actually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavindar View Post
    Well, I think that Healing Tide Totem is more powerfull for being a totem than a casted or channeled spell...
    Healing Tide is balanced with other similar abilities, around that fact in both PvE and PvP so it's not more powerful than any other wide-range raid healing ability, people just use that as an excuse because they're jealous of our lazy "fire and forget" design.

  15. #95
    Herald of the Titans Eliot123's Avatar
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    I use Projection pretty much always in both specs. I tried the other two and disliked both (don't really need another cooldown to micromanage (...which causes other cooldowns to micromanage) and Persistence, while not that bad, I find less useful than Projection). Tbh for me at this point Projection is one of those QoL spells I don't want to play without (like back in previous expansions when Ghost Wolf had a cast time, I'd use talents to make it instant regardless of spec - otherwise I wouldn't even want to have it on my bars). I'm still hoping they'll make Projection baseline though and change that whole tier.
    When in a hole, keep digging!

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavindar View Post
    Well, I think that Healing Tide Totem is more powerfull for being a totem than a casted or channeled spell...
    Hence "hardly". HTT is comparable to Tranquility for example, which is just as immobile, and is just as off-set by being interrupted as HTT is through being destroyed. Since Tranquility is channeled, it means a druid cannot cast anything during that time (partly compensated by druids using a lot of hots), so it's a similar restriction to multiple water totems canceling each other out. HTT is a rare exception in which having those drawbacks is reasonable from a comparisson POV.

    There are not many of those exceptions though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irisia View Post
    What I was trying to say is that a lot of shamans are not being asked to do special jobs, not because we can’t do them effectively, but simply because people are not used to having shamans do these jobs.
    Sounds very speculative. How are you supposed to know why shamans are rarely used for one duty or not? It's a RL's duty to know what their raiders can do and what not, so I think it unlikely shamans aren't asked to do something just because others dont notice an ability. It's makes much more sense for RL's to look into those toolkits, notice an annoying ramp up and decide: I'd rather have an up-front effect, because I deem it more reliable.

    And that’s just bullshit. If you can’t use Capacitor Totem reliably, then it’s 100% the players fault.
    Maybe. But wether or not you critisize errors in the execution, if an skill is to bothersome in it's use, people dont want to use it.
    The totem can be destroyed and some encounters actually destroy totems => disadvantage
    The totem has a ramp up time, and some monster may be very fast and out of range by the time it goes off => disadvantage
    The totem canceles out other air totems, and in WoD we'll maybe have Storm Elemental Totem as our chosen talent, not mentioning grounding enemy spells, spirit linking as resto, or having to break roots via WWT. In some instances you may have to drop an emergency Spirit Link as resto and cant drop that CPT to stun like you're expected to => disadvantage

    Many variables which make CPT usage very annoying. There's more though. Let's say you're the only shaman and the encounter just happens to make CotE really important. Not having TProjection will make CPT much more annoying to use. having to walk all the way towards the stun area as a caster sucks bad. Or what about lagging? I know that is bad in any ocassion, but for CPT-timing it's even worse. Frankly speaking, there's no justification for CPT to be THAT annoying to use. NONE. AT. ALL.
    A RL has to make strategies with as few room for error as possible. To ream a failing player at the end of a wipe doesn't serve any real purpose. A RL expects failure to some degree, and works to lower room for error. Choosing idiot-proof abilities
    Also, you had to use Capacitor together with Totemic Projection to make it work for both fights, so I guess this serves as another win for our level 45 talents!
    So there was a single niche fight where CPT fit. Awesome. I'm sure if blizz just made a single one featuring Sentry Totem, they wouldn't have had to remove it . And TPro being mandatory to make it work for both sides is more a point against this tier then for it. One fight where it really excelled at, and even there it required a talent. So basically there's no area where CPT without TPro is actually well designed.
    It emphasises thatz CPT is crap baseline and TPro being crap for being useless for most totems and when it has a use, it is mostly a fix to an otherwise horrible ability.

    I'm not saying CPT shouldn't have a ramp up. But they could at least lower it to three seconds. That would still leave room for placing it shortly befor spawns, but save a much needed. glyph spot to fix a really bad ability. Being able to toss (certain) totems baseline would spare us the need to talent into an ability fix also.

    You're basically making examples of when the totem worked. No one claimed it was completely unusable under any circumstances. It's still to clunky and unfun to use though, and there's not a SINGLE reason or justification for that. Three seconds would still be an eternity for a high ranked arena player, and if the toss is used upon placing the totem, it cannot be thrown after being placed either, so running out of range under this POV becomes easier even.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
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  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitheqt View Post
    That's not a win at all; that basically just glorifies the fact that Capacitor Totem is that shit that you need a talent to make it useful which is bad class design. And I don't know any other abilities that go from being "useless" as baseline, to "half-decent" when you take a talent. Need I even mention the Glyph that only further proves how disgusting the design is?

    So that's what it is, our totem tier is balanced around the fact that our entire totem tier is shit and we have to take one of these to band-aid fix them? That sounds a lot like something Blizzard would do for us, actually.
    .

    Yea, this is very true. Totems have just had small adjustments or "band-aid" fixes each xpac without a solid, detailed, overall look at totems and upgrading them to be more in line with how spells or mechanics should work in the current version of the game. By losing most of totems previous advantages (no/low cd, unique effects, ect) they should have added several improvements to make totems easier and more effective to use.

    - Totemic Projection being baseline is obvious, just like how trap launcher is for hunters.
    - Totemic persistence doesn't HAVE to be baseline but it would make sense to just make it a base passive because the devs added long duration/cd totems like stone bulwark, elemental, HST/HTT.... which they never had before. This causes alot of clashing with totems, and just feels super clunky..... being restricted to only one totem per element made sense back when we had buffs vs utility and alot more totems, but NOT anymore.
    - CotE doesn't have to be baseline either, but I think it would also make sense considering some totems might get wasted or easily countered and the cd reset would let you try again.... it also helps balance the fact that totem cds are MUCH longer. In older xpacs, 15 secs was the longest CD we had and most were lower or no CD but now most totems are atleast 20-30sec cd and usually a min or more.


    Basically, the whole totem tier is stuff that Shaman should have baseline to bring totem mechanics up to date. We lost many advantages for totems, but gained no new advantages or reduced disadvantages...... totems as the Shaman class's "signature mechanic" are very clunky and poorly designed, they haven't really been looked at in detail. Totems are less powerful and play a smaller role within the class, so devoting 1/6 of our talent tiers to totems just does NOT make sense.

    I really hate Blizz dev's responses to our complaints about totems and T45 talents. Their philosophy is outdated, and they seem stubborn and unwilling to give us some much needed and long overdue updates to totem mechanics. Make current T45 totem talents baseline and turn it into mobility tier. If they did this I would be SUPER CISED about the new xpac, but as of right now it feels like nothing major has really been done for Shaman yet.

  18. #98
    Dreadlord Aurokk's Avatar
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    IMO If I had to "polish" this tier:
    - Projection Baseline because srsly its ketchup and fries with capacitor and even magma/slt/earthbind|grab;
    - I'd rework Call of Elements into 2 charges on all <3m totems (would work like roll, deterrence, etc) instead of a new 3m keybind that resets other CDs;
    - Totemic Restoration as is;
    - Repulsion Totem (the one in MoP beta) introduced back into Projection's slot;

    Would keep the spirit of the row with "drop totems more frequently", "multiple of the same element simultaneously" and "new toy to project"

    edit: http://wowpedia.org/Repulsion_Totem

    2 charges for CoE makes it more game changing than the current model because if for ex I need double grounding, I drop grounding, take a spell, cast CoE, drop another grounding, but loose out on the extra CD for every other totem.

    Persistence would still add gameplay for SBT on top of a EET Reinforce (Primal Elementalist) while not giving up Projection shenanigans

    Repulsion because its a new totem on a totem tier and it synergizes with projection aswell.
    Last edited by Aurokk; 2014-05-27 at 05:53 PM.

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  19. #99
    Moderator Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurokk View Post
    IMO If I had to "polish" this tier:
    - Projection Baseline because srsly its ketchup and fries with capacitor and even magma/slt/earthbind|grab;
    - I'd rework Call of Elements into 2 charges on all <3m totems (would work like roll, deterrence, etc) instead of a new 3m keybind that resets other CDs;
    - Totemic Restoration as is;
    - Repulsion Totem (the one in MoP beta) introduced back into Projection's slot;

    Would keep the spirit of the row with "drop totems more frequently", "multiple elements simultaneously" and "new toy to project"

    edit: http://wowpedia.org/Repulsion_Totem
    I actually sort of agree with these changes, except for Totemic Persistence. I believe it's still as worthless as ever as a talent because it takes away from the other two, but I also think it's too valuable to be baseline as we should still keep the '1 totem per element' design. I know a few 'long-lasting' totems work against this, namely Stone Bulwark Totem with its whopping 30 second duration (which could easily be lowered, or just turned into a normal non-totem cooldown) but if we fixed those issues, and added Aurokk's changes in, it wouldn't be half bad and I'd finally be happy with this tier.

  20. #100
    Herald of the Titans Eliot123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurokk View Post
    IMO If I had to "polish" this tier:
    - Projection Baseline because srsly its ketchup and fries with capacitor and even magma/slt/earthbind|grab;
    - I'd rework Call of Elements into 2 charges on all <3m totems (would work like roll, deterrence, etc) instead of a new 3m keybind that resets other CDs;
    - Totemic Restoration as is;
    - Repulsion Totem (the one in MoP beta) introduced back into Projection's slot;

    Would keep the spirit of the row with "drop totems more frequently", "multiple of the same element simultaneously" and "new toy to project"

    edit: http://wowpedia.org/Repulsion_Totem

    2 charges for CoE makes it more game changing than the current model because if for ex I need double grounding, I drop grounding, take a spell, cast CoE, drop another grounding, but loose out on the extra CD for every other totem.

    Persistence would still add gameplay for SBT on top of a EET Reinforce (Primal Elementalist) while not giving up Projection shenanigans

    Repulsion because its a new totem on a totem tier and it synergizes with projection aswell.
    This would be awesome.
    When in a hole, keep digging!

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