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  1. #121
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devla View Post
    Going to assume that you have nothing worthwhile to say, since you did not even attempt to counter my argument, only did a pathetic ad hominem attack.
    Actually your point was invalid from the get-go. It's only on farm where aoe is padding. When you are progressing? Those adds need to die usually as a priority. So in terms of "getting the kill" is extremely important, especially when you can get everyone else to focus single target (some guilds use this method) where the warlock(s) aoe the adds on immerseus/garrosh. Galakras just adds to the point although I don't think anyone really bothered to split hairs on the adds, you could have people single targeting the shamans / bonecrushers while the warlock(s) solely take care of aoe other than passive cleave and similar. Trying to defend it as irrelevant when the reason you die on immerseus, galakras, nazgrim, spoils is pretty much because of the adds is why you are getting called out and ad hominem'd, maybe bring something valid first.

    And you wanna know something? Even being 1% above in single target AND dominating AoE is OP. No class should be top in both, straight up. Every other class has roles where they shine and others where they fall flat on their face (generally). To then be so sturdy on top of that is just hilarious.

    I've also never seen someone call spoils easier than malkorok before - but I guess that's what having warlocks in the raid does
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Even being 1% above in single target AND dominating AoE is OP.
    Does 0.94% count?

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by ragonfu View Post
    Does 0.94% count?
    Arcane mages have shit mobility and weak survivalbility. They have many weaknesses. Warlocks don't.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Imhere View Post
    Arcane mages have shit mobility and weak survivalbility. They have many weaknesses. Warlocks don't.
    Destruction warlocks are OP I said so on the first page our utility, survivability and AoE at 5+ mobs are all too strong but overall destructions dps isn't OP.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by ragonfu View Post
    Destruction warlocks are OP I said so on the first page our utility, survivability and AoE at 5+ mobs are all too strong but overall destructions dps isn't OP.
    Affliction is though. And since they both follow around the same stat priority (You can pretty much go mastery>hatse>crit for both specs) you can switch specs in between fights easily and dominate meters on every fight.

  6. #126
    Locks have been broken for this whole expansion

    they either did really good/ highdamage, or low LOW damage

    They either had too many self heals or died to quickly.

    They either had to many CC's not on DR with anything else, or they had nothing
    Right...wrong...The universe doesn't care
    Driefal,Etrith(Retired)

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Imhere View Post
    Affliction is though. And since they both follow around the same stat priority (You can pretty much go mastery>hatse>crit for both specs) you can switch specs in between fights easily and dominate meters on every fight.
    Being able to switch is one of the reasons I love warlocks, it is however a problem. If blizzard balances each spec around it's strengths then it screws over warlocks don't that play multiple specs. If blizzard doesn't balance around specs strengths then warlocks switch spec depending on the fight and are OP. To fix this blizzard should make the gearing priorities very different for each other (like mages) so warlocks can't switch so easily (and if they do are underperforming for that spec).
    Last edited by ragonfu; 2014-05-18 at 09:24 PM.

  8. #128
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    I wouldn't say OP unless you are talking about multidot fights. I know lots of other classes can keep up and even surpass us on lots of single target fights. Multidot....no contest.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    I've also never seen someone call spoils easier than malkorok before - but I guess that's what having warlocks in the raid does
    Spoils was harder than malk progression wise for me. But farm malk kills usually took like 2-3 attempts compared to our farm spoils kill which were always 1 shots.

  10. #130
    Ah, I can't wait until we get back to the community-accepted status quo of Mages being miles ahead of everyone else again.

  11. #131
    It's pretty freakin' amazing how big the gap between Destro Lock and Fire Mage is at the moment. You would think the two specs should be tuned pretty similarly.

    LOL.

  12. #132
    Bloodsail Admiral Durantye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    I'll just ignore your insults. Ad hominem is the lowest form of communication.

    1. Oh look: http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spoils_of...all/14/60/max/
    Seems to me like their unholy dk and frost mage shouldn't be "riding his nuts". That's a 20 to 30% dps difference if they play to their potential.

    2. You are implying that blizzard will not change ANYTHING besides snapshotting and will not balance affliction (and other classes) around not having snapshotting anymore. That will not happen.

    3. But it is in NO WAY as clear cut as you make it out to be.
    Let's take a look at spoils, which is definitely not a single target dps fight: http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spoils_of...all/14/60/max/
    Then look at logs from iron juggernaut (http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings...ge&spec=Arcane). Both arcane and fire are INCREDIBLY close to each other.
    1: You link spoil logs when I talk about protectors?? Thats certainly a new way to try to disprove someone talking about protectors, and yes I suppose unholys do fall behind, but no looking at 10H protectors frost has very comparable logs to destruction, within 20k.

    2: I never once implied that, I have since the beginning been saying that affliction won't be broken in WoD since everyone is screaming it needs nerfs because they don't know how it works now.

    3: Yes I believe fire isn't exactly working as intended atm(thank u for pointing that out), so point being they perform well in all situations in every spec, that very much plays to my benefit in the original argument that warlocks were apparently broke from performing any fight well between just 2 specs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Didacticus Syntacticus View Post
    It's pretty freakin' amazing how big the gap between Destro Lock and Fire Mage is at the moment. You would think the two specs should be tuned pretty similarly.

    LOL.
    Why? Just because they are based around fire elements doesn't mean they have to perform in the sameway, do you expect frost dks and frost mages to perform the same way?

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Durantye View Post
    1Why? Just because they are based around fire elements doesn't mean they have to perform in the sameway, do you expect frost dks and frost mages to perform the same way?
    Aside from them being highly mobile ranged casters with very similar roles and abilities?

    They sure don't perform the same way, I'll give you that much. But if your raid ever needs .7 of a destro lock, get yourself 1.0 of a fire mage.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Rethul Ur No View Post
    Ah, I can't wait until we get back to the community-accepted status quo of Mages being miles ahead of everyone else again.
    I would expect this might take a while with mages being only ridiculous for a very short span this addon.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by ragonfu View Post
    Procheesers isn't a viable measuring stick at all, tbh.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Beace View Post
    And you think only locks are doing that? Every top rank from every single class is done with various tricks to maximize their dps. It just so happens warlocks are #1 at that. It also just happens that warlocks are also #1 on average (http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_...14/30/default/).

    I don't mean to be rude, but if your personal experience is different, that's based on a difference in gear or skill level in your guild.
    sometimes im on top of the ranks as a lock, but not by very much. i have 3 hunters in my guild and a boomkin. sometimes the boomy is on top. i have no idea why maybe hes just a super good player. but we are all approx 575-578 ilvl so it cant be much difference. anyway.

    one could say the same about hunters being op, they can use any skill while moving so.. ya.. how about that. affliction might be a lil op atm, but its getting toned down in WoD so who cares.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Didacticus Syntacticus View Post
    It's pretty freakin' amazing how big the gap between Destro Lock and Fire Mage is at the moment. You would think the two specs should be tuned pretty similarly.

    LOL.
    http://www.proraiders.com/ranks/pers...spec=Fire_Mage
    http://www.proraiders.com/ranks/pers...uction_Warlock

    LOL.

  18. #138
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Have your frost mage talk to me. I won't get him up to the warlock's DPS because they're broken. However, he should be much closer than what you suggest.

    He also shouldn't be stacking mastery.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Much better to look at affliction.
    http://www.proraiders.com/ranks/persecond.php?rp=1&spec=Affliction_Warlock

    As if averaged DPS means anything.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by L3fty View Post
    30% was an extreme example, but the case remains that no matter the fight, noone can top the lock.

    Perhaps this is just the natural swing of things, but to me it really feels like MoP has been locks > all. I am a resto shaman but I can see in our raids that some of the dps get frustrated with this level of supremacy. I know I would be annoyed.

    Looking through HC vids on the youtubes, I can count the times I've seen a lock not number 1 on one hand.

    Guess it's good for progress...
    Warlocks are very strong but its not so much their dps that makes them so strong. On singletarget there are plenty of classes that both keep up and beat them.
    Warriors, ferals, mages, shaman, rogues etc. It's their insane utility, insane survivabilty and mobility with zero drawbacks and broken aoe.

    Like others have said, your lock just happen to be the best dps player you have, im sure he would beat everyone else playing another class equally skillful.
    Start logging fights and see how the rest of your team measures up against others of their respective spec and compare how the warlock is doing, sadly, im afraid you'll find out most of them are playing shit, if its that big discrepancy between them.
    Last edited by santa666; 2014-05-19 at 01:09 PM.

  20. #140
    I cringe IRL every time someone links to proraiders as part of an argument.

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