WW Monk rolling Healing Amp trink over healer??

[ArclightRL]

So the other week the amazing heroic amp healing trinket dropped from norushen.

The healers at the time were a priest that didnt need it, and a shaman that it was an upgrade from a worse trinket that was also only normal (non-WF).
The Priest healer was a fill in pug, and the shaman was listed as a 3rd healer with MS elemental, although he was being the second healer for a while as the other 2 have been absent for some time.

Ignoring that mess, the shaman rolled on the trinket and to my suprise the WW Monk also rolled on it.
This WW Monk usually pulls great numbers and 'knows his stuff'. His reasoning was that the amp alone was better than his Norm Harroms trink, if anything it was close to BiS for all 3 of his specs..

Is this at all remotely true? I thought something would be implemented to make cross-role trinkets useless for the others excluding a tank taking a dps trinket..
And all of the forums i've searched there isn't even a mentioning of amp trinkets being close to BiS for WW Monks?

I did some maths on it at the time and the amp gained from it wasnt worth it in comparison to the agility proc, and even then thats not including the multistrike?
Is there some obvious or hidden thing I'm missing? Because I admit I don't know Monks at all and I'm only here to learn something I've missed

So in the end, if it is viable for a WW monk, is it of equal value to them and a resto shaman to upgrade to?

I appreciate any help

[Totaltotemic]

It wouldn't be better than normal Haromm's, but it would be a better 2nd trinket than any other normal mode trinket for any spec. It really is that messed up that the amplification passive is that strong.

Taking it from an actual healer is kind of wrong though, also pretty silly.

[Aros230]

Its partially true. Most Windwalkers go for the strength variant however. The trinket is so strong the passive effect is just as good as another trinket in the long run.

[Jocias]

WW's two BiS trinkets right now are Haromm's and TED. TED is the worse of the two trinkets, so if he's going to be replacing anything, it shouldn't be Haromm's.

I think Totaltoetmic did some number crunching a while back and determined that a strength amp trinket of an ilvl equal to a TED is not an upgrade over TED, but a strength amp trinket of greater ilvl is. Since the strength proc of the strength amp trinket is fairly weak for a WW, most of the value of TTT is from the amp, so I assume Total's evaluation of the strength amp trinket would also be true for any other amp trinket. For single target, I'd have trouble believing the healing amp trinket, heroic or not, is an upgrade over a normal Haromm's since Haromm's is, hands-down, our best trinket for single target. Also, the amp trinket scales with overall ilvl. If he's still in mostly normal gear, the value of the amp trinket is lower than it would be if he were in mostly heroic gear. It is, however, probably a slight upgrade over his other trinket.

Long story short, your WW is being greedy taking a healing trinket from a healer. I'd be ashamed and embarrassed if I were him.

[Pandragon]

WW's two BiS trinkets right now are Haromm's and TED. TED is the worse of the two trinkets, so if he's going to be replacing anything, it shouldn't be Haromm's.

I think Totaltoetmic did some number crunching a while back and determined that a strength amp trinket of an ilvl equal to a TED is not an upgrade over TED, but a strength amp trinket of greater ilvl is. Since the strength proc of the strength amp trinket is fairly weak for a WW, most of the value of TTT is from the amp, so I assume Total's evaluation of the strength amp trinket would also be true for any other amp trinket. For single target, I'd have trouble believing the healing amp trinket, heroic or not, is an upgrade over a normal Haromm's since Haromm's is, hands-down, our best trinket for single target. Also, the amp trinket scales with overall ilvl. If he's still in mostly normal gear, the value of the amp trinket is lower than it would be if he were in mostly heroic gear. It is, however, probably a slight upgrade over his other trinket.

Long story short, your WW is being greedy taking a healing trinket from a healer. I'd be ashamed and embarrassed if I were him.

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but since it's on the topic of the Amp trinks. I got this trink as well(heroic), for my OS. Would it be worth using it over my normal AOC? If it is, what about if I get heroic AOC?4

[Babylonius]

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but since it's on the topic of the Amp trinks. I got this trink as well(heroic), for my OS. Would it be worth using it over my normal AOC? If it is, what about if I get heroic AOC?4

Going from normal AoC to H Amp it would be pretty close, maybe edge toward H amp if you're close or above 565 or so.
If you get H AoC I would stick with AoC as, if used correctly, you can drop around 2-3k haste to compensate for the extra EB and FoF uptimes. The Healing amp trinket gives you no benefit from the proc. I personally wouldn't even consider the healing or int amp trinkets because you can't make use of the procs. Thok's amp trinket, which you can make use of the proc, isn't better than similar trinkets until basically BiS, and even then its not that much better.

Perhaps with the +16 upgrades, the HWF Thok's will pull ahead of TED, but Total did some math to show that at an equal item level it was still a fraction worse than TED.

[Jocias]

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but since it's on the topic of the Amp trinks. I got this trink as well(heroic), for my OS. Would it be worth using it over my normal AOC? If it is, what about if I get heroic AOC?4

Theoretically, AoC is our BiS, but it requires perfect use of FoF pretty much on CD for that to work. In practice AoC is not as great as it sounds. All we really get from AoC is a reduced EB CD, which isn't bad. It counts as about 2.8k haste plus the agi proc that averages out to be about 2.1k agi over the course of the fight. The amp trinket provides about 8.5% haste and mastery. The mastery isn't huge, but that 8.5% haste amp allows you to drop around 1.1k haste and put it into crit. What's really big is the 4.25% increased multiplicative crit damage, since the crit amp is additive. If you're at 60% crit raid buffed against a boss, that's about 2.55% increased damage.
For comparison:
AoC: 2.8k haste + 12.7k agi proc for 20 seconds once every 115 seconds (2.1k on average over the course of a 6 minute fight)

Healing Amp: 1.1k haste, 350 mastery, 2.5-2.8% increased overall damage depending on your crit chance.


Is AoC's extra 1.7k haste and 2.1k agi worth more than 3ish% increased overall damage? It'll be close, but I'd side with the amp trinket. The heroic AoC allows you to drop about 1k more haste and has a higher agi proc, which would make it better than the healing amp trinket.

[Deleted]

A heroic AMP even with semi-useful proc (aka the str variant) is not better than a normal Haromms, your WW is either a greedy douche or incompetent.

To further this point I challenge you to find another WW using the healing AMP trinket, even the strength one that actually procs AP is ranked 3rd for us.

[Totaltotemic]

WW's two BiS trinkets right now are Haromm's and TED. TED is the worse of the two trinkets, so if he's going to be replacing anything, it shouldn't be Haromm's.

I think Totaltoetmic did some number crunching a while back and determined that a strength amp trinket of an ilvl equal to a TED is not an upgrade over TED, but a strength amp trinket of greater ilvl is. Since the strength proc of the strength amp trinket is fairly weak for a WW, most of the value of TTT is from the amp, so I assume Total's evaluation of the strength amp trinket would also be true for any other amp trinket. For single target, I'd have trouble believing the healing amp trinket, heroic or not, is an upgrade over a normal Haromm's since Haromm's is, hands-down, our best trinket for single target. Also, the amp trinket scales with overall ilvl. If he's still in mostly normal gear, the value of the amp trinket is lower than it would be if he were in mostly heroic gear. It is, however, probably a slight upgrade over his other trinket.

Long story short, your WW is being greedy taking a healing trinket from a healer. I'd be ashamed and embarrassed if I were him.

Right, he's talking about a heroic Amp (574) over a normal mode TED (561), that's pretty huge difference from comparing equal ilvl trinkets because the Amp trinket would be worth 15% more than the normal mode version, and they're already incredibly close at qual ilvls anyways. It doesn't have the Strenght proc, but realistically the Strength proc is kind of irrelevant compared to the total stats. It might not be better than the normal TED, but then it again it also might be. He's still greedy as hell for taking it from another healer regardless.

[Deleted]

Over the pug, yeh Im okay with giving it to him, provided your pug knows that guildies will always have prio. But heroic pugs, you'd need to explain that situation a bit more.
Over your guild healer, he'd have to produce some serious mathcraft to show for it. Haromms is REALLY good. I really dont think even the heroic amp can top that without a beneficial proc. To be honest, if it were my guild, Id let pretty much every dps and tank roll for TTT, but for some of these other amp trinkets, bindings and the norushen one, I wouldnt let the dps roll over a healer for it without a really damn good reason.

[Jocias]

Right, he's talking about a heroic Amp (574) over a normal mode TED (561), that's pretty huge difference from comparing equal ilvl trinkets because the Amp trinket would be worth 15% more than the normal mode version, and they're already incredibly close at qual ilvls anyways. It doesn't have the Strenght proc, but realistically the Strength proc is kind of irrelevant compared to the total stats. It might not be better than the normal TED, but then it again it also might be. He's still greedy as hell for taking it from another healer regardless.

I wasn't comparing equal ilvls. The OP was talking about replacing a Haromm's not a TED with the non-strength amp trinket. A normal Haromm's will be better than the heroic non-strength amp trinket for single target. Over the TED, yeah, it would probably be an upgrade. My TED comparison was to give some background and let the OP know that the trinket isn't bad, but it isn't a replacement for a Haromm's.

[Totaltotemic]

Oh yeah, Haromm's is by far BiS, just saying that there are two trinket slots. I'm pretty sure that flex Haromm's is better than HWF of any other trinket, but don't quote me on that.

[Pandragon]

Going from normal AoC to H Amp it would be pretty close, maybe edge toward H amp if you're close or above 565 or so.
If you get H AoC I would stick with AoC as, if used correctly, you can drop around 2-3k haste to compensate for the extra EB and FoF uptimes. The Healing amp trinket gives you no benefit from the proc. I personally wouldn't even consider the healing or int amp trinkets because you can't make use of the procs. Thok's amp trinket, which you can make use of the proc, isn't better than similar trinkets until basically BiS, and even then its not that much better.

Perhaps with the +16 upgrades, the HWF Thok's will pull ahead of TED, but Total did some math to show that at an equal item level it was still a fraction worse than TED.

I am a 573 ilvl. Gonna be higher today with the new upgrades.