1. #3861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ponkster View Post
    Madness that people think ToF is good for progression, unless there are short-lived adds take PI.
    Crazy that you think ToF is only good on prog if there are adds.

  2. #3862
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkaneer View Post
    This is what my raid leader would say... You are helping the raid by getting to execute phase faster, it does not matter if your dps is lower in the last 20% because raid dps will be higher over all because we hit execute phase faster.

    EDIT: Also you will never get to the execute phase if your raid wipes, so some times you need to push a phase real hard or wipe, and PI is going to do that. ToF is going to get you nothing.

    I have been made to talent crap before due to this kind of reasoning, it does not help my dps at all sometimes but it helps every one else's.
    You may as well reroll a different class then. Spriests are amazing at dpsing priority targets and especially execute. You may as well just play a mage.

  3. #3863
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkieZ View Post
    You may as well reroll a different class then. Spriests are amazing at dpsing priority targets and especially execute. You may as well just play a mage.
    looks like you've got it all figured out. Instead of switching talents; we reroll because Darkiez on the MMO forums has strong opinion.

  4. #3864
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by justflayin View Post
    Crazy that you think ToF is only good on prog if there are adds.
    If you're fighting a single target boss, and the lowest you're getting him down to is 50%, ToF is absolutely worthless. PI is better than a 0 uptime ToF.

    Seriously, read what people are talking about. They're saying to use PI until you're actually getting the boss into the later part of the fight.

  5. #3865
    Quote Originally Posted by Ponkster View Post
    looks like you've got it all figured out. Instead of switching talents; we reroll because Darkiez on the MMO forums has strong opinion.
    We? Hardly. Just people who fail to recognize the strengths of the spec and expect it to be something it isn't or play it as if its something its not and then complain about how shadow isn't measuring up to every other class in the game :'(. Thankfully I don't have to take advice from someone who thinks that unless there are short-lived adds in a fight I should take PI for progression's sake. Unfortunately, other people may actually take your advice, which I guess is the bigger issue.
    Last edited by DarkieZ; 2015-03-23 at 09:36 AM.

  6. #3866
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkieZ View Post
    We? Hardly. Just people who fail to recognize the strengths of the spec and expect it to be something it isn't or play it as if its something its not and then complain about how shadow isn't measuring up to every other class in the game :'(. Thankfully I don't have to take advice from someone who thinks that unless there are short-lived adds in a fight I should take PI for progression's sake. Unfortunately, other people may actually take your advice, which I guess is the bigger issue.
    Except no one is saying that PI is better or that shadow is bad. They're saying if you're getting 0% uptime on ToF you may as well use something else until you're reaching a point at which the talent will be useful. But we should roll mages and only talent one way, since they never swap anything out either.

    Talents, no longer situational since 2015.

  7. #3867
    Quote Originally Posted by methz View Post
    Except no one is saying that PI is better or that shadow is bad. They're saying if you're getting 0% uptime on ToF you may as well use something else until you're reaching a point at which the talent will be useful. But we should roll mages and only talent one way, since they never swap anything out either.

    Talents, no longer situational since 2015.
    That's kind of meaningless, though.

    Think about the two fights you would use PI on - Butcher and Gruul. Both are fights that do not change at all, so the argument that PI lets you get to a later point in the fight so your guild can learn it? False. That is not required on butcher or gruul which are hard DPS checks and simply require your raid to kill them within the enrage (which is the biggest issue once you get past all the simple mechanics of both fights).

    Now let's take the next scenario - say you are starting progression on either of those fights, you decide to run PI to "look better" on the meters, or because you aren't getting to the point where you are getting any ToF uptime. OK, you are a few dozen wipes in and your guild is starting to get to the point where a kill is in sight, and it's time to burst out the 125 stat food and augment runes, and of course, the best talents you can run for DPS. Very rarely do you ever kill a boss shortly after this, and suddenly you are having early wipes and looking bad on the meters, and your raid is wondering, "hey, why is XYZ doing so much worse now?"

    So there are two problems here. One, you used PI simply to create a false image of doing meaningful damage when it's not because you will never use PI on 99% of the kills, and two, when you start using ToF and wiping again, your guild sees you at the bottom and thinks you suck, since they fail to understand the strengths of your class because instead of educating them on it, you chose to create said false image.

    If your claim is that PI lets you essentially "lie" to your guild so that your raid leader doesn't replace you cause your damage is low...well, for your sake, I hope this is a PUG because that's the only time I can see that being an actual argument - otherwise find a better guild because a raid leader that doesn't understand your strengths won't get you very far anyway. The only time PI would be a better talent than ToF is if you are constantly dying before 35% - if that's the case, go nuts with PI.

    With that said, I don't think PI is that far off from ToF DPS wise on single target. Anyway, I would just stick with ToF because even if you are getting 0% ToF uptime, you are never going to get anything meaningful out of attempts using PI anyway. At least with ToF, you know you are running the best talent possible for a kill at any point.
    Last edited by Dawnrage; 2015-03-23 at 06:32 PM.

  8. #3868
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnrage View Post
    That's kind of meaningless, though.

    Think about the two fights you would use PI on - Butcher and Gruul. Both are fights that do not change at all, so the argument that PI lets you get to a later point in the fight so your guild can learn it? False. That is not required on butcher or gruul which are hard DPS checks and simply require your raid to kill them within the enrage (which is the biggest issue once you get past all the simple mechanics of both fights).

    Now let's take the next scenario - say you are starting progression on either of those fights, you decide to run PI to "look better" on the meters, or because you aren't getting to the point where you are getting any ToF uptime. OK, you are a few dozen wipes in and your guild is starting to get to the point where a kill is in sight, and it's time to burst out the 125 stat food and augment runes, and of course, the best talents you can run for DPS. Very rarely do you ever kill a boss shortly after this, and suddenly you are having early wipes and looking bad on the meters, and your raid is wondering, "hey, why is XYZ doing so much worse now?"

    So there are two problems here. One, you used PI simply to create a false image of doing meaningful damage when it's not because you will never use PI on 99% of the kills, and two, when you start using ToF and wiping again, your guild sees you at the bottom and thinks you suck, since they fail to understand the strengths of your class because instead of educating them on it, you chose to create said false image.

    If your claim is that PI lets you essentially "lie" to your guild so that your raid leader doesn't replace you cause your damage is low...well, for your sake, I hope this is a PUG because that's the only time I can see that being an actual argument - otherwise find a better guild because a raid leader that doesn't understand your strengths won't get you very far anyway. The only time PI would be a better talent than ToF is if you are constantly dying before 35% - if that's the case, go nuts with PI.

    With that said, I don't think PI is that far off from ToF DPS wise on single target. Anyway, I would just stick with ToF because even if you are getting 0% ToF uptime, you are never going to get anything meaningful out of attempts using PI anyway. At least with ToF, you know you are running the best talent possible for a kill at any point.
    Its like you have no idea what you're talking about, ugh. Pls you must be wrong cause <reasons>. /sarcasm

  9. #3869
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnrage View Post
    That's kind of meaningless, though.

    Think about the two fights you would use PI on - Butcher and Gruul. Both are fights that do not change at all, so the argument that PI lets you get to a later point in the fight so your guild can learn it? False. That is not required on butcher or gruul which are hard DPS checks and simply require your raid to kill them within the enrage (which is the biggest issue once you get past all the simple mechanics of both fights).

    Now let's take the next scenario - say you are starting progression on either of those fights, you decide to run PI to "look better" on the meters, or because you aren't getting to the point where you are getting any ToF uptime. OK, you are a few dozen wipes in and your guild is starting to get to the point where a kill is in sight, and it's time to burst out the 125 stat food and augment runes, and of course, the best talents you can run for DPS. Very rarely do you ever kill a boss shortly after this, and suddenly you are having early wipes and looking bad on the meters, and your raid is wondering, "hey, why is XYZ doing so much worse now?"

    So there are two problems here. One, you used PI simply to create a false image of doing meaningful damage when it's not because you will never use PI on 99% of the kills, and two, when you start using ToF and wiping again, your guild sees you at the bottom and thinks you suck, since they fail to understand the strengths of your class because instead of educating them on it, you chose to create said false image.

    If your claim is that PI lets you essentially "lie" to your guild so that your raid leader doesn't replace you cause your damage is low...well, for your sake, I hope this is a PUG because that's the only time I can see that being an actual argument - otherwise find a better guild because a raid leader that doesn't understand your strengths won't get you very far anyway. The only time PI would be a better talent than ToF is if you are constantly dying before 35% - if that's the case, go nuts with PI.

    With that said, I don't think PI is that far off from ToF DPS wise on single target. Anyway, I would just stick with ToF because even if you are getting 0% ToF uptime, you are never going to get anything meaningful out of attempts using PI anyway. At least with ToF, you know you are running the best talent possible for a kill at any point.
    Because the butcher doesn't change at all at any point in the fight, right?

    http://www.wowhead.com/guides/raidin...hic-difficulty
    Regen#1804 need NA overwatch friends.

  10. #3870
    Quote Originally Posted by Regen View Post
    Because the butcher doesn't change at all at any point in the fight, right?

    http://www.wowhead.com/guides/raidin...hic-difficulty
    It gets harder when it enrages, which means you want it do die faster when it enrages, which means you want to take PI cause it super execute damage, right? I... what?

  11. #3871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erto View Post
    If you're fighting a single target boss, and the lowest you're getting him down to is 50%, ToF is absolutely worthless. PI is better than a 0 uptime ToF.

    Seriously, read what people are talking about. They're saying to use PI until you're actually getting the boss into the later part of the fight.
    I did read what you said. I was quoting you. Not the entire thread. You said madness that people think ToF is good for progression unless there are adds. I disagreed with you. How about you read. If the boss isn't getting down to 50% (don't even understand that value either) it isn't the one shadow priest w/o PI's fault.

  12. #3872
    This thread is gold. It keeps getting better +1

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  13. #3873
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnrage View Post
    The only time PI would be a better talent than ToF is if you are constantly dying before 35% - if that's the case, go nuts with PI.
    Holy shit, this is literally the entire point. It's literally this simple.
    If you're progressing and taking bullshit talents to look better, you're not long for that team anyway. The entire point was, in a situation in which you're not able to benefit from tof, you may as well take something else. How this is a difficult concept is just beyond me.
    You don't take mindbender and then just not cast it. You don't take SoD and then never dump your procs. You don't take insanity without casting it. You don't take ToF unless you can see some uptime. When you get to the point at which you can get uptime, you use it because it's superior. How the fuck is this so difficult to understand?
    Beyond that, if you don't want to do that, weirdly enough, you don't have to. I personally don't because it's not worth the tome to flex on the meters when the raid is going to eat shit anyway, but the fact that this such a foreign concept is just mind blowing.

  14. #3874
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    This thread is gold. It keeps getting better +1
    It's almost getting as exciting as ret threads.
    Regen#1804 need NA overwatch friends.

  15. #3875
    Can I just jump in to say holy shit the 4 set is fun!

    I finally got it on my priest cos it's kinda an alt atm. I went and ran Maidens on lfr for runestones since pugging maidens HC is much hard. Anyhoo, the damage increase from that seems nuts to me. Granted a 3 target fight is probably a wet dream for it but having almost 90% uptime on a 12% haste buff feels fantastic.

    I only saw sims from ages ago (probably ST) that rated it kind of meh, is it just me that thinks its great?

  16. #3876
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Can I just jump in to say holy shit the 4 set is fun!

    I finally got it on my priest cos it's kinda an alt atm. I went and ran Maidens on lfr for runestones since pugging maidens HC is much hard. Anyhoo, the damage increase from that seems nuts to me. Granted a 3 target fight is probably a wet dream for it but having almost 90% uptime on a 12% haste buff feels fantastic.

    I only saw sims from ages ago (probably ST) that rated it kind of meh, is it just me that thinks its great?
    It actually simmed as one of the best sets for sustained multi-target damage (since you can maintain 100% uptime of the full bonus)

  17. #3877
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    This thread is gold. It keeps getting better +1
    That's my opinion of your twitter account

  18. #3878
    Quote Originally Posted by methz View Post
    Holy shit, this is literally the entire point. It's literally this simple.
    If you're progressing and taking bullshit talents to look better, you're not long for that team anyway. The entire point was, in a situation in which you're not able to benefit from tof, you may as well take something else. How this is a difficult concept is just beyond me.
    You don't take mindbender and then just not cast it. You don't take SoD and then never dump your procs. You don't take insanity without casting it. You don't take ToF unless you can see some uptime. When you get to the point at which you can get uptime, you use it because it's superior. How the fuck is this so difficult to understand?
    Beyond that, if you don't want to do that, weirdly enough, you don't have to. I personally don't because it's not worth the tome to flex on the meters when the raid is going to eat shit anyway, but the fact that this such a foreign concept is just mind blowing.
    tldr: tof is superior on attempts that matter, PI is superior on attempts that don't matter. Take PI.

  19. #3879
    Quote Originally Posted by Blupr View Post
    That's my opinion of your twitter account

    Jealous of how good my selfies are?

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  20. #3880
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    Jealous of how good my selfies are?
    St Patrick's Day was gold, how smashed were you lol
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