[6.0] Shadow Priest Discussion

[ThrashMetalFtw]

As already stated, I don't want CoP (standard) to outperform CoP Dotweaving or CoP Lite, even on standstill fights. Any buff brings the class-balance closer, is nice, and the 25%ish buff to our Mastery, is very welcome, but the idea of spamming MB and MS, with some MF channels while DP is running, sounds extremely boring. Sadly, I don't have access to beta, so can't do anything else than reading up and watching streams atm.

We were ridiculously broken at the end of Cata. (In both T12 and T13, especially with DTR.)

This is not relevant to the discussion at hand, but your memory is failing you. We were extremely shit at the very early beginning of Cata, then in 4.0.6 (some weeks into Cata), they massively buffed MB dmg, and its benefit from Mastery, changing it from hitting like a wet noodle, to becoming pretty much the hardest hitting spell in the game. The 3 next days, we were the most OP class in the game, but that obviously got hotfix nerfed (they changed the passive dmg bonus you got from speccing Shadow, from 25% to 10%).

Still, after this nerf, we were the by far strongest caster in the game for all of t11, especially before they nerfed DI. The only class that could touch us on singletarget was the even more OP Arms Warriors, maybe a good MM Hunter or lucky Mage. Everybody was 4 leagues below on any boss where we could DoT more than 1 target. The difference between a good Shadow Priest and a good "whatver class your #2 Dps was", on Valiona & Theralion 25HC, was pretty much the same as the difference between good Aff Locks and your 2# Dps class on Protectors 25HC (yes, the SoO one). At least before extremely short kill-times in SoO scaled Aff Locks through the roof.

We were still the 1# caster spec for most of Firelands, although Arcane Mages with Shard of Woe started outscaling us towards the end.

In DS, we were horribly outscaled by Fire Mages, Legendary Rogues and Arms Warriors, and SV Hunters were simply tuned to do higher dmg than us. If you were beating these classes in DS (single target), you must have had the best RNG in the world, or the ppl playing the other classes, weren't playing properly.

Don't get me wrong, we were still much stronger in DS, than we ever were in MoP, but the SP power lvl in Cata was t11 > t12 > t13, not the other way around. Yes, I am kinda nazi about Shadow and class-balance history.

[Dawnrage]

I'll take it. If you were doing ok with Dotweaving / CoP lite, you'll still be doing ok after the mastery buff; and you might do better in single target (Old Gods forbid, you might even top).

Most raiders play what does the most. It's icing if the spec is fun as well.

The standard CoP however is probably the very definition of a 3 button spec using MB/MSpike/DP, I bet you would just MSpike your DP off too and it would be a DPS increase if mastery is good now.

Wait though, I just said raiders play what does the most right? Well, shadow isn't doing the most out of all the classes, so playing a boring spec for months just to be top 5 or top 10 or whatever is not my cup of tea - and shouldn't be anyone's. Your priorities are weird if you would advocate for a change like that, what exactly is the point of doing more damage (and not even be #1 at that) while playing a boring spec? You could reroll a number of classes that do more damage, and are more fun and interactive than CoP shadow. Arms warrior for example got gutted compared to MoP, but I would say their rotation requires far more thought than standard CoP, and that's really not saying much since arms is a joke to play in WoD.

I love spriest, which is why it's going to kill me if they really make the standard CoP rotation the only viable choice. I would like to see any shadow priest say with a straight face telling me they would pick standard CoP over CoPlite or CoP Dotweaving.

[BobAwesome]

idk why you guys are acting like normal 3 button CoP is so much more dull than CoP lite or dot weaving. With the removal dot snapshotting, it's all boring. At least with normal CoP you got dat high as fuck APM!

[Dawnrage]

idk why you guys are acting like normal 3 button CoP is so much more dull than CoP lite or dot weaving. With the removal dot snapshotting, it's all boring. At least with normal CoP you got dat high as fuck APM!

No offense but you are not playing right then. CoPlite on twin ogrons was fun as hell.

[Tanned]

Dot Weaving CoP with the T17 4p is *really* fun.

[Ilir]

idk why you guys are acting like normal 3 button CoP is so much more dull than CoP lite or dot weaving. With the removal dot snapshotting, it's all boring. At least with normal CoP you got dat high as fuck APM!

Snapshotting was not fun either. Look at your addon, refresh dot. So fun.

[Deleted]

Hello friends I was wondering if anything has changed with racials, is troll still the winner for horde?

[Floryel]

Snapshotting was not fun either. Look at your addon, refresh dot. So fun.

I never used addons for snapshotting.

I just tracked buffs with Tell Me When and I thought about what I should do.

[Deleted]

Snapshotting was not fun either. Look at your addon, refresh dot. So fun.

Honestly quite surprised how much more I'm enjoying Priests without snapshotting now.

[Mooninites]

I'm more of a "if we can't be top five we're not worth playing." person.

I don't think shadow priest is the spec for you then, try a mage or rogue who have historically been among the top dps classes or just roll with fotm classes. Totally agree with Bubblesasc, it would probably be better if you just left the shadow priest community

I'm more of a "if we can't be top five we're not worth playing." person. Topping on my lock or feral by practically rolling my face on the keyboard .

Feral is definitely not a faceroll spec, if you faceroll and win with feral that means the rest of the dps in your raid are extremely bad

[Dierdre]

I don't think shadow priest is the spec for you then, try a mage or rogue who have historically been among the top dps classes or just roll with fotm classes. Totally agree with Bubblesasc, it would probably be better if you just left the shadow priest community

Feral is definitely not a faceroll spec, if you faceroll and win with feral that means the rest of the dps in your raid are extremely bad

Such bitterness. I'm sorry, I don't play FOTM so I'm here to stay. Maybe the rest of the dps in my raid are extremely bad and so am I. I don't log, if I did I wouldn't share and if I shared you would definitely have a field day laughing at how bad I am. I am the incarnation of badness and I have never pretended otherwise. I hope that gets it out of your system because it's in no way relevant to the discussion.

I just find it laughable that people take it as a personal insult when someone tells you that with the current tuning your spec lacks the potential to beat equally geared and skilled players, even if we are doing much better than we did in MoP. I'm well aware that feral, hunters, WW monks, DKs, mages and warriors won't likely be doing as well as they were at lvl 100. We probably won't either. What I said, and I won't take back, is that as of yesterday there was no way you could beat all similarly skilled players of those specs since they were currently overtuned because of the lvl 90 bandaid tuning fixes (which our +10%s are probably part of too).

It's perfectly ok to be middle of the pack as long as outliers are kept in line, so you have the potential to outperform your teammates by playing better or having better RNG. Don't take being middle of the pack as a personal affront.

[Mooninites]

It's perfectly ok to be middle of the pack as long as outliers are kept in line, so you have the potential to outperform your teammates by playing better or having better RNG. Don't take being middle of the pack as a personal affront.

I'm more of a "if we can't be top five we're not worth playing." person.

Do you even remember what you wrote like 24 hours ago?

[Dierdre]

Do you even remember what you wrote like 24 hours ago?

I do. And if you didn't understand it (again) I'll explain what I meant (again).

If while running with similarly geared and skilled players you are middle of the pack, as in you're within ~5-10% of the majority of your group; with outliers kept in line (as opposed to MoP Mage/locks), you can be on top every now and then. You have the potential to do it. It is not a numerical impossibility to do it. The probability of you being on top is greater than 0.1%. You will see it happen eventually. This was not the case in MoP.

EDIT. I'm out of troll food. Please keep on topic or open a "100 reasons why Dierdre sucks" thread. I'll be sure to contribute.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

I never used addons for snapshotting.

I just tracked buffs with Tell Me When and I thought about what I should do.

A lot of sense, this statement make, does not.




Hint hint, TMW is an addon...

[Adammonroe]

has anyone gotten a spirit traker for AS yet?

[Dierdre]

has anyone gotten a spirit traker for AS yet?

I think Twintop had one, not sure if it's updated.

[kaamila]

i know it doesnt matter anymore but for the last 2 weeks before mop and the 25% mastery buff, are we changing gems to mastery now? and choosing the mindspike/DI talents?

[Deleted]

The question is, do we always have to compare ourselves to the current top dps class, to the best mages, warlocks and warriors on top ranks to know where we stand? Because at the end of the day, what really matters, is that the boss dies. And for that to happen, everyone within the guild TEAM has to perform at its best, and if that means that the shadow was only 4th or 6th on that boss, who cares right? Because wow is a team game, at least pve is.

A lot of times we tend to forget how valid we are for the team, because we are too focused on the top ranks, when what actually really matters is how we performed and supported our guild when we killed the boss for the first time. I dont know about you guys but i for one was always a very important player for my guild throughout the entire mop xpac. And a lot of times top 3 if not even 1 on bosses. And please dont say my guildmates are bad, because they are not, neither was the shadow priest in mop! Dont tell me we were bad!

Of course my whole point only makes sense if everyone in the guild plays at the same lvl if skill, otherwise...

[Shandalar]

The only thing shadow apports to the raid now is dps, so yeah, it matters. If shadow only can be 4th or 6th, kick him and take another warrior/mage/hunter. This is how a serious guild works.

[Deleted]

Of course my whole point only makes sense if everyone in the guild plays at the same lvl if skill, otherwise...

It's probably worse if everyone's at the same level. Then it means that you can't outplay the others to fight for your spot.

People complain about their class/specc not being strong because it can cost them a raid spot, or force them to play another class that they don't enjoy as much as Shadow. If you're a raid leader putting together the team for the night, you're naturally going to choose the players who will give you the best chance of progressing on the boss, so lower DPS classes get dropped in favour of the current FOTM.