[6.0] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Deleted]

If you are considering Kargath mythic as a heavy movement fight, then I am feeling really, really, really sorry to your guildies for carrying you, since Kargath is cycling between kiting a boss, and then just stand and DPS most of the time.
Twin Ogron is a real example of heavy movement fight-you'll simply die otherwise, and there is no safe spot to stand and channel something long enough. Kargath, however, got lots of time to stand and dotweave.
Also picking SoD on the fight where you will most likely need to kill the tigers(since you haven't done it yet and will be low on dps anyway) is worse than you think. If you were one of the guys that are kiting tigers to the end, dotting them, that would make sense. SoD is good not only when you need to move a lot, but when you will have a second target to DoT that will appear for most of the fight

I can't stand still for long and dps the boss once the cats become active. Might be our strategy and composition as we had very few ranged dps during our attempts but constantly having to move due to flame pillars raining bombs, berserker rush and the cats forcing proper positioning makes it difficult to get consistent dotweaves, I can make it happen but not consistently and I still pull about a decent 25k dps at 50% left on the boss (ilevel 652) but I'm feeling that the insanity is not getting quite the bang for its buck.

I have to move almost all the time. I get showered every 5 seconds with fire bombs. I'm not saying I have to move every 10 seconds for an extended period of time but I get interrupted in my insanity frequently from those fire bombs. I've never died to a cat chasing me or a berserk rush as I always position myself properly.

Personally, I found twin ogron much easier to DPS on but only heroic/normal.

[Dawnrage]

You are suppose to close one of the two fire pillars sometimes to reduce the movement required for those flame circles you have to run out of in between cat spawns and berserker rush but I don't think most people do that.

Anyway, you can honestly just sit in them and move when you are on a moving GCD. Shadow has really good self healing so even if you take a lot of damage from them you should be able to make it up by healing yourself up.

[Ponkster]

I can't stand still for long and dps the boss once the cats become active. Might be our strategy and composition as we had very few ranged dps during our attempts but constantly having to move due to flame pillars raining bombs, berserker rush and the cats forcing proper positioning makes it difficult to get consistent dotweaves, I can make it happen but not consistently and I still pull about a decent 25k dps at 50% left on the boss (ilevel 652) but I'm feeling that the insanity is not getting quite the bang for its buck.

I have to move almost all the time. I get showered every 5 seconds with fire bombs. I'm not saying I have to move every 10 seconds for an extended period of time but I get interrupted in my insanity frequently from those fire bombs. I've never died to a cat chasing me or a berserk rush as I always position myself properly.

Personally, I found twin ogron much easier to DPS on but only heroic/normal.

This is a tanking issue not yours. They aren't closing the pillar properly and forcing the healers/ranged to move far more than they need to.

Also damage on this fight dps wise is pretty weird, some pulls I can do 30k+ due to favor others I'm at 25k.

Its a fun fight though.

[bkw]

A little new on this dotweave thing. Have been practising a bit with around 11% selfbuffed haste but got some problems in a certain part of my rotation.

I have been going with MB on cd and MS until 4 orbs, after 4th blast 2mind spikes into SW:P > MB > VP > DP. Here comes the trouble, I have around 1.5 or 2seconds off cooling my next MB, should I cast insanity for 2 ticks then interrupt it right after MB becomes ready again?
I follow this with MB > DP > Insanity > MB > Insanity > MS (both dots are going to last a little longer than my MS) > MB and reset. I felt this really smoothly but to be honest I have no clue on how haste affects this rotation, especially with time warp and all the shit going on, DP lasts 1 or 2 seconds less than normal.

Also, I have read a little about SoD and it seems like a talent that greatly benefits from multidotting, at least 2 o 3 targets. Do you recommend it on any other fight than Tectus?

Lastly, stats I should aim for are mastery > haste > MS > crit > vers afaik. Any breakpoint for haste? any unbuffed percent where I should stop going for it?

[Naga Coatl]

I'm sorry but I'll ask this a third time - I have googled and searched but I still haven't found anything on the matter. Maybe I did not searched the right places but I'll repeat myself.

Is the olt 4p t16 still very strong for Shadow? I've tested many times at the dummies, and I manage to do more dps with the old 569 pieces than with a combination of 630 and 645 new pieces - an this is without the execute phase where SWD fuels the 4p bonus.

Unluckily I don't have screen or logs, I can only say that in HM normal I did over 22.8k dps on butcher with 623 ilvl, while every on the other bosses (up to twins) I always managed about 19-20k. I would be 644 ilvl without the t16.

I know that it's purely anedoctal evidence and that my numbers are nothing exceptional, but I can't understand if the old tier is still unnecessarily good - I'm not a theorycrafter nor I want to disprove or criticize what it's been done about SP theorycrafting, but I really expected that the old tier would have been obsolete with the first 630 pieces. Instead, I found myself doing 'good' (if not 'superior') damage with it (so, 20 ilvl less than I would be), and I couldn't find anything of the subject on various guides.

Sorry again for the question!

[Zinge]

I'm sorry but I'll ask this a third time - I have googled and searched but I still haven't found anything on the matter. Maybe I did not searched the right places but I'll repeat myself.

Is the olt 4p t16 still very strong for Shadow? I've tested many times at the dummies, and I manage to do more dps with the old 569 pieces than with a combination of 630 and 645 new pieces - an this is without the execute phase where SWD fuels the 4p bonus.

Unluckily I don't have screen or logs, I can only say that in HM normal I did over 22.8k dps on butcher with 623 ilvl, while every on the other bosses (up to twins) I always managed about 19-20k. I would be 644 ilvl without the t16.

I know that it's purely anedoctal evidence and that my numbers are nothing exceptional, but I can't understand if the old tier is still unnecessarily good - I'm not a theorycrafter nor I want to disprove or criticize what it's been done about SP theorycrafting, but I really expected that the old tier would have been obsolete with the first 630 pieces. Instead, I found myself doing 'good' (if not 'superior') damage with it (so, 20 ilvl less than I would be), and I couldn't find anything of the subject on various guides.

Sorry again for the question!

You shouldn't be using any T16 gear if you have any WoD gear at all to replace it. The intellect from WoD pieces alone beat the tier bonuses from T16.

[MasterHamster]

"Every time Mind Sear deals damage to 4 or more targets, they are affected by [Mass Hysteria], increasing damage taken by Mind Sear by 5%, stacking up to 10 times. Lasts 2 seconds."

It's not that hard to come up with ways to avoid Sear outperforming Flay on ST <.<
I can understand if they don't want to introduce additional mechanics to it however. And I'd wager they'd be more content with the ramping-up than instantly. Though I'd actually be happier if they'd finally would allow Mind Sear to keep getting channeled even if the target dies in the process... so annoying.

[Sinaa]

"Every time Mind Sear deals damage to 4 or more targets, they are affected by [Mass Hysteria], increasing damage taken by Mind Sear by 5%, stacking up to 10 times. Lasts 2 seconds."

It's not that hard to come up with ways to avoid Sear outperforming Flay on ST <.<
I can understand if they don't want to introduce additional mechanics to it however. And I'd wager they'd be more content with the ramping-up than instantly. Though I'd actually be happier if they'd finally would allow Mind Sear to keep getting channeled even if the target dies in the process... so annoying.

Even the LK version would work where it doesnt deal any damage to the target, just those around it. (make it non castable on friendlies ofc)

About target dying, with the current MS you can just channel it on the tank.

[MasterHamster]

About target dying, with the current MS you can just channel it on the tank.

Of course

Just a little Solo QoL change I think is years overdue

[Sinaa]

Of course

Just a little Solo QoL change I think is years overdue

Wish they cared ^^

[Naga Coatl]

You shouldn't be using any T16 gear if you have any WoD gear at all to replace it. The intellect from WoD pieces alone beat the tier bonuses from T16.

That's what I thought, but as I have written I seem to do more damage with the old tier than with 630-640 ilvl pieces.

I just tried again at the dungeoneer dummy - 5 minutes, no buffs, no shadowfiend (it dies as soon as I cast it O_o), halo even if it hits multiple dummies:

t16 - 14100 dps, peaking at 14500
640+ - 13300 dps, peaking at 13500

And, again, no execute phase which I think makes the t16 more powerful.

I'm still confused.

[Ayanamii]

I just tried again at the dungeoneer dummy - 5 minutes, no buffs, no shadowfiend (it dies as soon as I cast it O_o), halo even if it hits multiple dummies:

t16 - 14100 dps, peaking at 14500
640+ - 13300 dps, peaking at 13500

Sounds like you're attacking the tank dummy, which absolutely will 1 shot your fiend. Not sure if that is also effecting your numbers. Try attacking the damage dummy to see if that changes anything. I have no idea what would change, dps wise, from tank to damage dummy.

[Naga Coatl]

Sounds like you're attacking the tank dummy, which absolutely will 1 shot your fiend. Not sure if that is also effecting your numbers. Try attacking the damage dummy to see if that changes anything. I have no idea what would change, dps wise, from tank to damage dummy.

Yeah, I was attacking the wrong dummy :P. I just repeated the test with the same conditions, and the results are:

t16 - 14100 dps (I screwed up the rotation a bit)
640+ - 13900

I used Shadowfiend twice in the 5 minute combat. It seems to have made a difference, but with the t16 I still do a bit more dps, even screwing the rotation a little.

[Relapses]

Yeah, I was attacking the wrong dummy :P. I just repeated the test with the same conditions, and the results are:

t16 - 14100 dps (I screwed up the rotation a bit)
640+ - 13900

I used Shadowfiend twice in the 5 minute combat. It seems to have made a difference, but with the t16 I still do a bit more dps, even screwing the rotation a little.

If you're wearing mostly dungeon blues, you'll probably notice a bit of an increase wearing T16 2pc (esp. if they're 582 4/4 upgraded pieces). Personally, I wouldn't go so far as wearing the 4pc, but I was rocking T16 chest/shoulders for a very long time as there was a bug on the loot tables for random 5-mans that prevented cloth chestpieces from being dropped. Once you get 640 gear, though, it's recommended to wear that instead. The Int and extra secondaries help out a lot.

[Qualia]

^
^
@Nagacoatl: Yes, T16 (or at least the 2 sets of it) will give you better DPS result on CoP single target and sometimes 2 targets as well (depends on how close to Patchwerk it would be). I have both sim'd my character and tested on dummy. However, the better your 2 WoD pieces are, the closer the gap will be (for example, when I tested earlier this week, my *sim* result already shrunk to a difference of 50-60 dps on a two targets patchwerk fight with a normal Highmaul pant and mythic chest, ~659-660 ilvl w/o using 2 pieces at that time). However, remember that by using 2 pieces (much less 4), you are giving up a lot of HP, which may not really be the best choice for progression fights, so I don't think that would be a good idea, except maybe trying to get some (tiny bit) more DPS in Butcher.

[Naga Coatl]

I'm almost full epic with 645+ pieces, the only slots that are still 630 are a ring, feets, and the legendary cloak (which if I read the BiS list correctly is strong as a 650 epic, more or less).

Thank you for the answers, but still I have a couple doubts. I don't know very well how sims work, what it's calculated, etc, so:

- Could be a good idea to use the 4p in a fight like Brackenspore, where adds need to be bursted down and give orbs thanks to SWD?
- Is the 4p really strong during execute phases, or the 'burst' it gives just compensates the lack of stats during the fight?
- What ilvl could be needed to put away the 2p/4p? I'm 644 with those three sub 630 pieces, and still the t16 seems stronger...

Of course I understand the HP problem, anyway.

Thanks again and sorry for my insistence.

[Qualia]

Can't answer the first two questions as I never considered keeping 4pc (so I never did any research on it), but for the last - I'm doing better on both sim and dummy with my WoD set now (663ilvl) than with 2 pieces, so I think the switching point should be somewhere between 659-663.

[Deleted]

The old 4 set is very good if you got them as Mythic pieces. I think it's around when you have 655 without them or something where the 4 set starts falling off from my own observations.

[Deleted]

I'm 657... I just did a quick test (up to 2mil), but yeah I gotta admit the old 4p is ahead by around 0.2k dps. I havent really bothered much and I guess could be more accurate. Btw, what is supposed to be the difference between dotweave and not? On the training dummy at my level its less than 1k dps, shoudl it be more?

[Relapses]

Food for thought, Blizzard has set a precedent where if enough players start wearing T16 over WoD pieces, they usually nerf the set bonus. (See: Fire 4-set.) It seems incredibly niche in Shadow's case, but I wouldn't put too much stock in its sustainability.

But yeah, if you're able to do more DPS with it, enjoy it while it's around. I'm 664 myself, well past the point where I'd be able to even test it.