[6.0] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Deleted]

I was one of them and I still think Shadow priests are good, just because of our lack of AoE pre-6.1 doesn't make us a bad class. I also think Shadow is currently the hardest class in the game to play well so I don't blame a bunch of people complaining about our state, since they probably still have trouble tying their shoelace.

We are undoubtly a bad class currently, our strongest qualities are still painfully mediocre and overshadowed by many, and our weakest are basically non-existent

[bubblesasc]

We are undoubtly a bad class currently, our strongest qualities are still painfully mediocre and overshadowed by many, and our weakest are basically non-existent

Can you tie your own shoe laces yet?

[Deleted]

Can you tie your own shoe laces yet?

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware you could have top single target if you just pressed your buttons hard enough

or actual aoe, guess I just wasn't skillful enough for that mind sear

not to mention our powerful cleave, but again must've been a player issue

I'm pretty sure the cooldown on leap of faith also scales with player skill, making our mobility one of the best

[BobAwesome]

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware you could have top single target if you just pressed your buttons hard enough

or actual aoe, guess I just wasn't skillful enough for that mind sear

not to mention our powerful cleave, but again must've been a player issue

I'm pretty sure the cooldown on leap of faith also scales with player skill, making our mobility one of the best

How does your raid put up with you?

[bubblesasc]

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware you could have top single target if you just pressed your buttons hard enough

or actual aoe, guess I just wasn't skillful enough for that mind sear

not to mention our powerful cleave, but again must've been a player issue

I'm pretty sure the cooldown on leap of faith also scales with player skill, making our mobility one of the best

I guess Paragon are retarded for running 2 Spriests in their core for Imperator (especially when they've said they shape their roster for the last boss of an instance) since our Warcraftlogs/skada overall DPS is low compared to other classes. Blood Legion as well, and possibly Midwinter if Drye becomes part of the core. If it makes you feel better Ascension would be too, if we had a 2nd Spriest.

[Bullettime]

I guess Paragon are retarded for running 2 Spriests in their core for Imperator (especially when they've said they shape their roster for the last boss of an instance) since our Warcraftlogs/skada overall DPS is low compared to other classes. Blood Legion as well, and possibly Midwinter if Drye becomes part of the core. If it makes you feel better Ascension would be too, if we had a 2nd Spriest.

The thing is with Shadow is that its kit worked ok for Highmaul but it doesn't mean it's a good spec at the moment. It's working with a busted kit due to its AoE and cleave based options not being worthwhile and all it has is single target output. That means CoP is doing its job but not Shadow design or balance as a whole being good.

Shadow also looks a bit better before everyone else that were performing around the level of CoP-Shadow got buffs that forced them up. Everyone below us have another DPS option that is superior overall.

But overall, it's mainly because of our talents. Shadow does fine on raw single target and has awesome execute which made them great for Imperator, especially before most others were buffed, but Shadow simply doesn't have the same options as other classes to optimize for extended multitarget or AoE situations that are so common in BRF. CoP Shadow simply cannot compete with other classes without the talent changes on a majority of encounters in BRF, despite its slightly above average Highmaul performance as there's a drastic difference in the encounter type.

I imagine someone of your caliber would have tested BRF on the beta to see the state of Shadow without those upcoming talent buffs. Beta Shadow performed ok before they nerfed dots and buffed Mastery and before they removed secondary flasks which helped to prop up AS on the encounters it would have been useful for. But the fact that Shadow is going into BRF with only CoP, as terrible as it is given encounter design of the raid, and needing gear from killing bosses to even start to compare with the majority of others is ridiculous.

In short, CoP is fine. Shadow as a whole isn't until the 100 talent buff.

[bubblesasc]

The thing is with Shadow is that its kit worked ok for Highmaul but it doesn't mean it's a good spec at the moment. It's working with a busted kit due to its AoE and cleave based options not being worthwhile and all it has is single target output. That means CoP is doing its job but not Shadow design or balance as a whole being good.

Shadow also looks a bit better before everyone else that were performing around the level of CoP-Shadow got buffs that forced them up. Everyone below us have another DPS option that is superior overall.

But overall, it's mainly because of our talents. Shadow does fine on raw single target and has awesome execute which made them great for Imperator, especially before most others were buffed, but Shadow simply doesn't have the same options as other classes to optimize for extended multitarget or AoE situations that are so common in BRF. CoP Shadow simply cannot compete with other classes without the talent changes on a majority of encounters in BRF, despite its slightly above average Highmaul performance as there's a drastic difference in the encounter type.

I imagine someone of your caliber would have tested BRF on the beta to see the state of Shadow without those upcoming talent buffs. Beta Shadow performed ok before they nerfed dots and buffed Mastery and before they removed secondary flasks which helped to prop up AS on the encounters it would have been useful for. But the fact that Shadow is going into BRF with only CoP, as terrible as it is given encounter design of the raid, and needing gear from killing bosses to even start to compare with the majority of others is ridiculous.

In short, CoP is fine. Shadow as a whole isn't until the 100 talent buff.

That's exactly why they have added Sear Insanity into 6.1, no other class got such a huge AoE buff because blizzard recognised how weak it made us perceived. They don't want us to just be casting Mind Sear for AoE so they've made our AoE different to MoP where we now have to spend orbs inorder to actually do AoE damage that matters. I have not yet tested Sear Insanity but there's no doubt that it has helped our AoE.

[Bullettime]

Yes. But my point is that Shadow itself isn't in that good of a state when we only really shine in one situation dictated by one talent. Luckily, Highmaul played to the strength of CoP more often than not.

Shadow needs the 6.1 class changes for BRF progress, otherwise Shadow is going to be in one terrible position as suddenly CoP loses effectiveness due to the encounter designs. Shadow will be pretty much fine with those changes but they're needed now, not a month or two from now.

[Deleted]

I guess Paragon are retarded for running 2 Spriests in their core for Imperator (especially when they've said they shape their roster for the last boss of an instance) since our Warcraftlogs/skada overall DPS is low compared to other classes. Blood Legion as well, and possibly Midwinter if Drye becomes part of the core. If it makes you feel better Ascension would be too, if we had a 2nd Spriest.

Yeah because there hasn't been any balance changes since then

[Relapses]

Yeah because there hasn't been any balance changes since then

The underlying point being made is that if Shadow were as bad as many people seem to insist, we wouldn't raid at all, much less in guilds which push world first progression. We're in a good spot, though, much like the last expansion, it feels like a greater onus is upon us to perform well since we look like shit on the meters if we fuck up our rotations much more than many other classes.

Regardless, I will echo the concerns of other SPriests...I'm a bit worried about encounter design and CoP friendliness moving into BRF; hopefully the 6.1 changes come around the same time or we may have a shitty first couple weeks of the instance.

[Sinaa]

The underlying point being made is that if Shadow were as bad as many people seem to insist, we wouldn't raid at all, much less in guilds which push world first progression. We're in a good spot, though, much like the last expansion, it feels like a greater onus is upon us to perform well since we look like shit on the meters if we fuck up our rotations much more than many other classes.

Regardless, I will echo the concerns of other SPriests...I'm a bit worried about encounter design and CoP friendliness moving into BRF; hopefully the 6.1 changes come around the same time or we may have a shitty first couple weeks of the instance.

The Belf models are light years from being rdy. I'm not optimistic.

[methz]

The underlying point being made is that if Shadow were as bad as many people seem to insist, we wouldn't raid at all, much less in guilds which push world first progression. We're in a good spot, though, much like the last expansion, it feels like a greater onus is upon us to perform well since we look like shit on the meters if we fuck up our rotations much more than many other classes.

Regardless, I will echo the concerns of other SPriests...I'm a bit worried about encounter design and CoP friendliness moving into BRF; hopefully the 6.1 changes come around the same time or we may have a shitty first couple weeks of the instance.

I don't know how much testing you or anyone else has done for BRF, but my biggest concern after seeing how bad our aoe is was definitely the blood furnace. With the changes to AS and searing insanity, I actually think we're in a pretty good spot for the raid. Yeah, we don't have the best of anything, but we do have a reasonable answer to most encounters

[Bullettime]

I don't know how much testing you or anyone else has done for BRF, but my biggest concern after seeing how bad our aoe is was definitely the blood furnace. With the changes to AS and searing insanity, I actually think we're in a pretty good spot for the raid. Yeah, we don't have the best of anything, but we do have a reasonable answer to most encounters

The problem is that we're depending on those 6.1 class changes to function where we should be and where we need to be. If they drop 6.1 a month into the raid for example, that's multiple progression weeks where we have to endure being total dogshit on the majority of encounters. Like Tectus level of garbage.

CoP being above average single target isn't going to do shit for us when the raid depends on lots of cleaving, multidotting, and AoE. Things that others do far better than us until 6.1 changes bring us to where we should be and give us properly tuned talent options to tackle those types of encounters.

[Stealthops]

I support these messages ^

[methz]

Hi quick question is pvp 4set any good in PvE?
The 2piece set is amazing of course but how about the 4p? Does it warrant sacrificing a GCD for Psychic Horror to empower Insanity?

How does the use of dispersion giving you more versatility have anything to do with PH and insanity? Not sure I understand

[Deleted]

How does the use of dispersion giving you more versatility have anything to do with PH and insanity? Not sure I understand

The 4 set restores the orbs you used on PH and PH gives Insanity buff. Dispersion and versatility have nothing to do with the 4 set PvP.

[Shahad]

Using the 4pc pvp set to gain some Insanity channels would mean sacrificing some Mind Spike GCDs. If wowhead's info on both spells is correct, Insanity does 240% of SP as damage over two GCDs, while Mind Spike with the CoP bonus does a 122.5% over a GCD and 250% over two GCDs. We use Insanity because we have to, to not spike off DP, but not because it's better than Mind Spike, unless I'm forgetting something.

[Deleted]

Using the 4pc pvp set to gain some Insanity channels would mean sacrificing some Mind Spike GCDs. If wowhead's info on both spells is correct, Insanity does 240% of SP as damage over two GCDs, while Mind Spike with the CoP bonus does a 122.5% over a GCD and 250% over two GCDs. We use Insanity because we have to, to not spike off DP, but not because it's better than Mind Spike, unless I'm forgetting something.

Isn't it higher chance for Insanity to crit and multstrike though?

[Biggles Worth]

Blizzard SWD WoW RIP

[Yvaelle]

The Belf models are light years from being rdy. I'm not optimistic.

Don't take that as a metric, WoW models have like 1000 polycount, they're quite basic - models take long because their modellers are lazy, any decent animator could probably spruce up the Belf model in an afternoon.

Assuming we get 6.1 buffs with Highmaul or early enough for Mythic progression at least - my only PvE concern is Void Entropy - it still sucks, doubling nothing is still nothing. Searing Insanity is a big improvement to our AoE, and AS is going to work wonders on a lot of BRF fights / crit gearing - but whatever Void Entropy is meant for, it doesn't work.

It needs to boost orb gen somehow, or it needs to hit so hard that orbs don't matter - and I'm pretty sure they won't do the latter