removing pounch and ravage is lame

[FeralSynapse]

This of course changes with the removal of Tranq in WoD, but I expect to change between NV and HotW quite often in WoD, especially since we can (and should) use rejuv in cat form.

Which I can understand, off healing is just not a roll I am asked to perform. Soaking mechanics, etc, is a given though. Are you 10 or 25 man? 10man I can understand getting most out of a HoTW tranq-less so in 25.

It's been a DoC tier (minus spoils and gala) for me pretty much all x-pac. If anything our healers always complain they have nothing to do and I've been 14/14 H for a while. I guess it's just a difference in raid styles/leadership. Even during progression I didn't run HoTW, it wasn't needed.

I have nothing against throwing heals on myself to keep myself alive but clicking all over my raid frames to spam rejuv on the raid is silly imo unless there is downtime or your forced away from the boss. While its nice to have the ability to do so-If it can be achieved while performing optimally-great, If it can't? No thank you here.

[RelaZ]

Incarnation: King of The Jungle

An improved Cat Form that allows the use of Prowl while in combat and causes Shred and Rake to function as if stealth were active. Lasts 30 sec.

You may shapeshift in and out of this improved Cat Form for its duration.

Does this mean that while I have Incarnation up I will stun my target whenever I want to reapply Rake? If that's the case it's retarded, stun DR someone just to keep a mandatory dps rotation bleed up.

Another possibility as I understood it is that blizzard wants us to shapeshift out of the improved Cat Form in order to apply regular non-stun Rake, however unless switching between Improved Cat Form and normal Cat Form is off the GCD that's going to take 3 GCDs... super-clunky.

Swapping between Imp. Cat Form and regular Cat Form better be off GCD / on separate GCD or blizzard has dun goofed for sure this time around.

Though I might have misunderstood, someone please clarify.

[Aseyhe]

Rake will always stun with incarnation (source).

[ApeDosMil]

Does this mean that while I have Incarnation up I will stun my target whenever I want to reapply Rake? If that's the case it's retarded, stun DR someone just to keep a mandatory dps rotation bleed up.

Another possibility as I understood it is that blizzard wants us to shapeshift out of the improved Cat Form in order to apply regular non-stun Rake, however unless switching between Improved Cat Form and normal Cat Form is off the GCD that's going to take 3 GCDs... super-clunky.

Swapping between Imp. Cat Form and regular Cat Form better be off GCD / on separate GCD or blizzard has dun goofed for sure this time around.

Though I might have misunderstood, someone please clarify.

I don't think you can switch between them. Once you press that Incarnation button, you have King of the Jungle for 30 seconds whether you stay in cat form or not. If you shift out, you basically just waste it. So, yeah, with Incarnation, you will be stunning your target every time you reapply your Rake dot. Useless and maybe counterproductive for your tanks in pve, but for pvp, we can spread about our Rake and stun each target for cheaper than that same strat was previous to this change in pvp. I don't wanna be that guy, but if you don't wanna stun during your Incarnation, you might wanna take one of the other two talents. Plus, it may just change before release, this is alpha.

[gestapo]

Good point. Though I hated incarnation and didn't use it much, it does take away the option of applying rake without DR'ing stuns while incarnation is up. However, as the above post reminds us, rake is cheaper than pounce. I think i'd much rather have the 'cheaper' rake/pounce because I feel like situations where you're on a kill target and you're re-applying rake and worried about DR stuns are quite few. If you're with a warrior and he needs to lock the target down simply get him to use his stun first.

I'm actually hoping the other talents work out to be a bit stronger to compete with incarnation in pvp.

[ApeDosMil]

Good point. Though I hated incarnation and didn't use it much, it does take away the option of applying rake without DR'ing stuns while incarnation is up. However, as the above post reminds us, rake is cheaper than pounce. I think i'd much rather have the 'cheaper' rake/pounce because I feel like situations where you're on a kill target and you're re-applying rake and worried about DR stuns are quite few. If you're with a warrior and he needs to lock the target down simply get him to use his stun first.

I'm actually hoping the other talents work out to be a bit stronger to compete with incarnation in pvp.

I've always used incarnation for pvp, but we got some nerfs a lil while ago, so I haven't been pvping with my feral. That said, I don't really like the ability, aside from giving ferals a vanish. I keep hoping they buff the treants, as it seems more useful in bgs/rbgs than soul of the forest. Correct me if I am wrong, but soul of the forest is only viable in pvp for arenas? Even then, incarnation still outshines.

Sorry, off topic.

Just remember guys, rake is cheaper than pounce was and same too with shred compared to ravage. Everything's going to DR a lot more than they used to. So if you're pveing with your guild (lfr&pugs probably won't matter) to warn the tank your rakes stun (or stay on one target to purposely DR for your tank's sake) during your incarnation; and if you're pvping, only spam rake on multi-targets during Incarnation so you don't incur the wrath of the DR too quickly.

[Elunedra]

we could probely make a macro to make shred & rake look like ravage & pounce while stealthed

[Tokas]

thank god those 2 shits were removed

[Deleted]

Im running with these macros since MoP, so i welcome the changes...

#showtooltip [stealth] ravage; shred
/cast ravage!
/cast shred

#showtooltip [stealth] Pounce; Rake
/cast [stealth] Pounce
/cast [nostealth] Rake

[Deleted]

Every feral I know, even top level, uses the "if stealth use ravage, ravage if proc, otherwise shred marco", so the removal of ravage should not bug you, and pounce is just been baked into rake (now stuns and does 100% dmg to cover the loss of the pounce bleed), so what bugs you? They had 2 options 1) They rather make an entire stance bar for feral or 2) remove the abilties that were causing the problems in the 1st place. Given the abiltity pruning, point 2 made perfect sense.

These threads just seem like a way to QQ about nothing.

[morislayer]

I certainly hope they keep the spell names in game. Two iconic abilities. I'm not too up to date with WoD feral / Guardian changes but can we now please separate cat / bear ability names...even if they do the exact same thing. Ie Ravage (cat) = Mangle (Bear)

Also RIP /pounce

[ophion1990]

Every feral I know, even top level, uses the "if stealth use ravage, ravage if proc, otherwise shred marco", so the removal of ravage should not bug you, and pounce is just been baked into rake (now stuns and does 100% dmg to cover the loss of the pounce bleed), so what bugs you? They had 2 options 1) They rather make an entire stance bar for feral or 2) remove the abilties that were causing the problems in the 1st place. Given the abiltity pruning, point 2 made perfect sense.

These threads just seem like a way to QQ about nothing.

Rake always stunning during Incarnation is a big dowside for PvP though. :/ Especially the way Celeston said it made me facepalm.

[ApeDosMil]

Rake always stunning during Incarnation is a big dowside for PvP though. :/ Especially the way Celeston said it made me facepalm.

Yeah, its going to DR, but you shouldn't be spamming rake on the same target anyways. Spread the love to all your enemies (in range).

[Kojo]

I'm not feeling 35% to shred from stealth makes it the new ravage, nevermind the missing crit bonus, the energy difference is insignificant; wasn't waiting on energy to ravage spam during zerkcarnation anyways.

Yeah, its going to DR, but you shouldn't be spamming rake on the same target anyways. Spread the love to all your enemies (in range).

That's the problem with it, spreading the love (re: DR) to all enemies.

I guess this isn't really topic related but just not seeing anything to look forward to as feral right now.

[ApeDosMil]

I'm not feeling 35% to shred from stealth makes it the new ravage, nevermind the missing crit bonus, the energy difference is insignificant; wasn't waiting on energy to ravage spam during zerkcarnation anyways.



That's the problem with it, spreading the love (re: DR) to all enemies.

I guess this isn't really topic related but just not seeing anything to look forward to as feral right now.

Diminishing Returns are on your target, not you; am I wrong?

[Tinderhoof]

I'm not feeling 35% to shred from stealth makes it the new ravage, nevermind the missing crit bonus, the energy difference is insignificant; wasn't waiting on energy to ravage spam during zerkcarnation anyways.



That's the problem with it, spreading the love (re: DR) to all enemies.

I guess this isn't really topic related but just not seeing anything to look forward to as feral right now.

• Shred: Shred the target, causing 245% damage to the target. Awards 1 combo point.Damage increased 35% while stealthed, and increased 20% against bleeding targets.targets.Critical strike chance increased by 50% when used from stealth against targets over 80% health.

And all that complaining for nothing.

[RelaZ]

Diminishing Returns are on your target, not you; am I wrong?

Yes that's how DR works.

And it sucks that we have to DR stun someone in order to apply the rake bleed during nuke. Previous posters have belittled how important timed stuns are, this change/nerf is a huge blow to Feral (Incarnation) although no doubt it will still be playable... just a lot more clunky than before.

I also think people overestimate the worth of being able to stun an entire team considering our stun is melee range. It wont happen very often that 3 targets are stacked and even when it happens you still have to ask yourself if it's really worth spending a lot of energy during your 3min nuke cd in order to put all 3 enemy targets on stun DR and also giving them a dot that could potentionally break cc, a lot of the times I imagine it wont be. I imagine it'll actually be quite rare to see the tripple stun happen, a bit more common than today sure, but still rare.

Basically PvP-wise merging Rake and Pounce has drawbacks, as well as advantages. The advantage being a slightly cheaper stun, and the drawback being having to stun regardless if you actually want to stun or not, during Incarnation only ofc.

Imo scrap it or give us some way to decide if we want to stun or not during incarnation.

The other merges (Shred/Mangle/Ravage) are perfectly fine tho imo, just want to point that out.

New Question: What new PvP set bonus will we get now that Ravage is gone? Just a remake of it that makes it so that Shred acts as if you're stealthed once every 30sec?

[ApeDosMil]

Yes that's how DR works.

New Question: What new PvP set bonus will we get now that Ravage is gone? Just a remake of it that makes it so that Shred acts as if you're stealthed once every 30sec?

Good point, though I think I'd still want at least one stun on any target before Incarnation shred nuking them to oblivion. :P

Pvp set bonuses are only changed per expansion right? We don't have precedent of it not being that way, correct? This is their opportunity to address what the spec may perceivably lack in pvp. If we need more damage, I think we will keep the Ravage pvp set bonus in the form of shred acting as if from stealh, yes. Or... try something new, like perhaps: Berserk's cooldown is reduced by 2 seconds for every shred that lands during its duration or while on cooldown; Applying faerie fire to a target grants +x or +x% multistrike; or any other number of things. Pvp set bonuses need to be more interesting than they currently are.

[mmokri]

I like this QoL change.

[Kraineth]

Which I can understand, off healing is just not a roll I am asked to perform. Soaking mechanics, etc, is a given though. Are you 10 or 25 man? 10man I can understand getting most out of a HoTW tranq-less so in 25.

It's been a DoC tier (minus spoils and gala) for me pretty much all x-pac. If anything our healers always complain they have nothing to do and I've been 14/14 H for a while. I guess it's just a difference in raid styles/leadership. Even during progression I didn't run HoTW, it wasn't needed.

I have nothing against throwing heals on myself to keep myself alive but clicking all over my raid frames to spam rejuv on the raid is silly imo unless there is downtime or your forced away from the boss. While its nice to have the ability to do so-If it can be achieved while performing optimally-great, If it can't? No thank you here.

25-man, not sure why you think it is less effective in 25man, it scales target numbers just fine. I didn't kill a single boss in Heroic SoO during progression without HotW. My tranq is asked for in every fight except Galakras, Shamans, and Nazgrim. Even now, being 14/14H since december it gets asked for every week.

Im pretty sure offhealing in WoD is also going to be a big deal under the new healing/healthpool system, allowing you to drop a heal or two if your raiders know what they are doing.