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  1. #1

    Curse of elements - Definition of bloat?

    Hey fellow warlocks!

    First time posting here, but i couldnt find a thread about it, and i figured it needed its own.

    I play a rogue as my main, and as such, i was a bit surprised when i realized that rogues and locks share the same debuff mechanic with both Master Poisoner and Curse of elements increasing spell damage on the target by 5%, and i was very bothered when i found out that the warlock version isn't a passive.

    As far as i am aware, the point of the ability pruning is to reduce the amount of spells which felt necessary to keybind, but wasn't used all that much or weren't very interactive. In this case, how is it that an ability, which you need to use once every 5 minute and which doesn't add anything to your gameplay, is not being removed as bloat? Especially when that ability becomes unnecessary the second you have a rogue in your group, because their own variation is actually a passive, as it should be?

    Atleast soulshatter had its uses and was actually interactive, whereas this ability just takes up an unneeded keybind for no particular reason. What do you guys think on this matter?

  2. #2
    Curse of Elements is the only AOE version of the magic taken debuff in the game, it also has thematic value as one of our last remaining curses/debuffs.

    It is not 'button bloat'.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    Curse of Elements is the only AOE version of the magic taken debuff in the game, it also has thematic value as one of our last remaining curses/debuffs.

    It is not 'button bloat'.
    No? Rogues do it even more efficient than any Warlock. Also Locks lose the ability to AE spread it in WoD, while rogues keep theirs. Dunno about the demo CoE aura tho

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Epsi View Post
    No? Rogues do it even more efficient than any Warlock. Also Locks lose the ability to AE spread it in WoD, while rogues keep theirs. Dunno about the demo CoE aura tho
    Curse of Exhaustion and Curse of the Elements now affect all enemies within 10 yards of the target, and are no longer mutually exclusive.
    Something, something /tencharacters

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    Something, something /tencharacters
    Point is still valid, since rogues spread it with FoK and don't need to use an extra gcd or extra resources as it is now in mop.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    Curse of Elements is the only AOE version of the magic taken debuff in the game, it also has thematic value as one of our last remaining curses/debuffs.

    It is not 'button bloat'.
    Rogues being able to spread their poison with FoK (which they should) means ours isnt the only AoE version. Furthermore, just because a spell has thematic value as being an original warlock spell, it doesn't make it any less bloaty.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Epsi View Post
    Point is still valid, since rogues spread it with FoK and don't need to use an extra gcd or extra resources as it is now in mop.
    Most warlocks usually CoE on pull and whenever there's a group of adds (FnB destro, CoE aura demo) so there aren't too many extra button presses but granted FoK at least does damage. Nothing wrong with more than 1 class having a certain buff/debuff especially with 10mans though with Mythics, you'd have at least 1 of every class anyway. Also the /tenchars thing was because I forgot I can't just quote stuff without saying anything.

  8. #8
    If you have to move to within 10 yards of the targets and spam an AE ability to spread the debuff around, it's not really passive, now is it?

    That's certainly not the same as a warlock casting a ranged spell at a target and having automatic AE spread radiating out from the TARGET.

  9. #9
    I've never played with a Rogue who has been spreading the debuff with FoK... Most Warlocks I've played with never Curse either. I'm usually in guilds clearing content fast and if they don't care about the debuff it sure feels like CotE is a redundant spell for us. I always curse and make sure to track it and feel it's important but it's really annoying to have to apply so I understand that a lot of people ignore it.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    I've never played with a Rogue who has been spreading the debuff with FoK... Most Warlocks I've played with never Curse either. I'm usually in guilds clearing content fast and if they don't care about the debuff it sure feels like CotE is a redundant spell for us. I always curse and make sure to track it and feel it's important but it's really annoying to have to apply so I understand that a lot of people ignore it.
    Most fights don't generally take more than 5mins (some exceptions apply) so no real need to track it unless it falls off during phase changes or something. But yeah especially if the group is really geared it doesn't feel like that 5% does anything sometimes.

  11. #11
    Well if it's a single target fight and you have a Rogue you will obviously not even apply it. If you don't play with a Rogue but more Warlocks and you don't decide who is cursing it's good to track it to not waste globals. On multi target fights there's no excuse to not track it IMO. Sure you can see it on the portrait but it's easy to get pushed away by all other debuffs so it's not visible, especially when applied by others.

    I liked the old Demo MF CotE aura we could use in ToT. I'd prefer them removing raid debuffs but if they made it a self-cast 40 yard range aura I'd be fine with it (as long as it doesn't cost any Warlock resources).
    Last edited by Bonkura; 2014-05-24 at 02:36 PM.

  12. #12
    Ugh I hope all Buffs and Debuffs buttons which do nothing but apply a baseline buff/debuff should be made passive.
    Capitalism, Ho!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
    Ugh I hope all Buffs and Debuffs buttons which do nothing but apply a baseline buff/debuff should be made passive.
    If everything is passive, then why the hell have them at all then? just adjust numbers baseline without a silly appendix talent.

    Also, Warlock Curse stays on target even if we die, or are not actively damaging it. Beat that Rogues.

    (Both versions have pros and cons, you just use your version, we use ours and everyone is happy with what they have, except the people who think it's bloat)
    Your Soul Shall Suffer! ||| Forum rules ||| New England Patriots

  14. #14
    CoE is one of the last curse spells left to warlocks, and an iconic and integral part of the class. In fact, it used to be one of the only reasons a warlock could get a raid spot in Classic (Naxx in particular), and other since-removed curses were part of that package in BC. If you really hate having to spend a GCD every now and again to apply the best version of the spell vulnerability debuff in the game (instant, ranged, no cooldown, long duration, AoE that is expandable with a glyph), then I would suggest recruiting some rogues, shadow priests, or windwalker monks so that you don't have to, and to leave those of us who like CoE's kit alone.

    (I seriously have no idea why everyone seems to be so insulted by CoE.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
    Ugh I hope all Buffs and Debuffs buttons which do nothing but apply a baseline buff/debuff should be made passive.
    You're definitely right. I think a separate button for debuffs is silly. Here's what we'll do: Whenever you cast MG (or DS, in WoD, I guess), it will put Agony, Corruption, and UA on the target. They're just debuffs, so casting them on their own is silly. We'll similarly roll Immolate into Incinerate, and Corruption into SB/Doom into ToC. Then, because buff applications are dumb, we'll just make Molten Core modify SB/ToC instead of SF - it's an extra button, right? Probably don't need Shadowburn anymore, either, and we can likely roll backdraft triggering into Incinerate to get rid of Conflagrate.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by bio347 View Post
    CoE is one of the last curse spells left to warlocks, and an iconic and integral part of the class. In fact, it used to be one of the only reasons a warlock could get a raid spot in Classic (Naxx in particular), and other since-removed curses were part of that package in BC. If you really hate having to spend a GCD every now and again to apply the best version of the spell vulnerability debuff in the game (instant, ranged, no cooldown, long duration, AoE that is expandable with a glyph), then I would suggest recruiting some rogues, shadow priests, or windwalker monks so that you don't have to, and to leave those of us who like CoE's kit alone.

    (I seriously have no idea why everyone seems to be so insulted by CoE.)



    You're definitely right. I think a separate button for debuffs is silly. Here's what we'll do: Whenever you cast MG (or DS, in WoD, I guess), it will put Agony, Corruption, and UA on the target. They're just debuffs, so casting them on their own is silly. We'll similarly roll Immolate into Incinerate, and Corruption into SB/Doom into ToC. Then, because buff applications are dumb, we'll just make Molten Core modify SB/ToC instead of SF - it's an extra button, right? Probably don't need Shadowburn anymore, either, and we can likely roll backdraft triggering into Incinerate to get rid of Conflagrate.
    You made me giggle.

    I salute you. It isn't bloaty and the difference between manually applying it or having a passive creates somewhat of a separation, and not a bad one either.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
    Ugh I hope all Buffs and Debuffs buttons which do nothing but apply a baseline buff/debuff should be made passive.
    Passive buffs are terrible. There's always at least one fight in every tier where you have to ask yourself if the buff will reach everyone (especially if you raid 10M). For example this tier there's plenty. Immerseus, Galakras, Dark Shamans (if you 3 tank), Spoils, Thok, Siegecrafter and sometimes even Klaxxi/Garrosh. As long as the buffs have limited range and we have fight mechanics that forces us to go far away from the raid to take care of them, the passive buffs are just terrible.

  17. #17
    What is this button bloat trend already ? Unless you can't manage more than 6-7 buttons, there's no such thing as an ability bloat...

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Sethesh View Post
    What is this button bloat trend already ? Unless you can't manage more than 6-7 buttons, there's no such thing as an ability bloat...
    Because WoW in current form requires like 50-70 binds. More if you PvP.

    Try explaining to a new player that unless they learn 70 different keybinds, they're going to suck.

    Doesn't go down so well, does it ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oktoberfest View Post
    If you do not like guns, move to England. It is that simple.
    Simply pack up and leave! Much think, such smart.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Leeches View Post
    Because WoW in current form requires like 50-70 binds. More if you PvP.

    Try explaining to a new player that unless they learn 70 different keybinds, they're going to suck.

    Doesn't go down so well, does it ?
    In PvE you rarely need more than 10. Even if you play at a high level. It's that faceroll.

    You make a point for the reasoning behind it though. Popular games like LoL and Dota2 have very few hotkeys that are essential.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Lubricious View Post
    If you have to move to within 10 yards of the targets and spam an AE ability to spread the debuff around, it's not really passive, now is it?

    That's certainly not the same as a warlock casting a ranged spell at a target and having automatic AE spread radiating out from the TARGET.
    Ummm. You don't have to move within 10 yards of anything. Read it again. Your second sentence is exactly how it works.

    affect all enemies within 10 yards of the TARGET

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