Curse of elements - Definition of bloat?

[Bonkura]

MMO's are pretty much dead besides WoW so I think it's fair to compare the game to MOBA's.

[openair]

MMO's are pretty much dead besides WoW so I think it's fair to compare the game to MOBA's.

MMO's are only dead if you only talk about subscription mmo's. But if you're going to compare wow to b2p and f2p MOBA's than it's only fair to include all the more than profitable b2p and f2p mmo's as well.

If mmo's are "pretty much dead" because wow is the only subscription only one, than MOBA's have always been and are completely dead as there are no subscription MOBA's.

[Bonkura]

GJ putting words in my mouth.

[Last Starfighter]

Because WoW in current form requires like 50-70 binds. More if you PvP.

Try explaining to a new player that unless they learn 70 different keybinds, they're going to suck.

Doesn't go down so well, does it ?

50-70 keybinds? No. List your 50-70 keybinds and I'll go through and scratch off the ones that you don't use in combat. We'll have that list whittled way the fuck down.

[Jessicka]

Warlocks are the least bloaty class right now, the MoP revamp saw to that. There's no reason to trim any more than we already lost this expansion. Elements is fine, it has enough unique properties and class flavour to justify its presence.

[Brusalk]

Warlocks are the least bloaty class right now, the MoP revamp saw to that. There's no reason to trim any more than we already lost this expansion. Elements is fine, it has enough unique properties and class flavour to justify its presence.

This perfectly expresses my views on the matter.

[striderZA]

Also, Warlock Curse stays on target even if we die, or are not actively damaging it.

This.

And what if you don't have a rogue in your raid (like a lot of 10M groups)?

[ComputerNerd]

It can be applied more passively by other classes.
Its inclusion I feel is exactly why Drain Life is some relic that someone in blizzard cannot let go of, some expression of "flavour" that simply must be maintained whether it is a good thing or not for the class.
Just like the buffing of drain life to try and keep it relevant, they are doing exactly the same with CoE.

[striderZA]

50-70 keybinds? No. List your 50-70 keybinds and I'll go through and scratch off the ones that you don't use in combat. We'll have that list whittled way the fuck down.

Indeed. 70 keybinds is not going to happen as you said, unless you're counting non combat stuff and binding a hell of a lot of them.

I've counted about 35 for me, including relevant pet commands.

[Belloc]

Abilities aren't pruned just because another class brings them to the table. Okay, rogues bring it... but what if you don't bring a rogue?

Are we going to get rid of Timewarp and Hunter heroism just because Shamans bring it? Let's get rid of soul stones since DKs and Druids can already battle rez.

[Jessicka]

This.

And what if you don't have a rogue in your raid (like a lot of 10M groups)?

Then you're not actually raiding, so it doesn't matter

Really, your group size is so small, the overall raid benefit is miniscule.

[Deleted]

There seems to be a general misconseption of people thinking i want it removed, because rogues have it as well. I honestly dont feel binding a spell to a key, so i can press it once every 5 minutes (and render it pretty useless if any of the other classes with the passive version is in the raid), when im already having trouble binding all the spells i'd like.

My idea would be to merge it with immolate (for destro atleast), heck, just make immolate apply CoE directly as a debuff, so people reminiscent of back when class balance was broken still get their joy from putting up curses.

[Baracuda]

In addition to lock/rogue some hunter pets can do the debuff too and in WoD Spriest and WW monk will be able to do it also.

[Belloc]

There seems to be a general misconseption of people thinking i want it removed, because rogues have it as well. I honestly dont feel binding a spell to a key, so i can press it once every 5 minutes (and render it pretty useless if any of the other classes with the passive version is in the raid), when im already having trouble binding all the spells i'd like.

My idea would be to merge it with immolate (for destro atleast), heck, just make immolate apply CoE directly as a debuff, so people reminiscent of back when class balance was broken still get their joy from putting up curses.

When you say "bind," do you mean that it's keybound or that it has a spot on your bars?

I haven't had CoE keybound in years... it's easy enough to click it (yes, click it) once at the start of the fight and then forget it. Attaching it to another ability would make it even easier, but I don't see the need for it. Rogues being able to apply it automatically doesn't mean that warlocks should be able to.

[striderZA]

Then you're not actually raiding, so it doesn't matter

Really, your group size is so small, the overall raid benefit is miniscule.

Yeah, 10M is fake raiding imo :P life changed since moving to 25M.

[Deleted]

When you say "bind," do you mean that it's keybound or that it has a spot on your bars?

I haven't had CoE keybound in years... it's easy enough to click it (yes, click it) once at the start of the fight and then forget it. Attaching it to another ability would make it even easier, but I don't see the need for it. Rogues being able to apply it automatically doesn't mean that warlocks should be able to.

Yes, i mean keybound. You really REALLY should not have to click on a spell mid combat or at the start of it, for obvious reasons.

[Thelxi]

Elements is bloat at this point and should be baked into things and get it over with, it'll happen eventually anyway.

[ComputerNerd]

Elements is bloat at this point and should be baked into things and get it over with, it'll happen eventually anyway.

I think it should have been, but I am now not convinced it will be so readily.
Afterall drain life was something they keep adjusting to "make it fit", and they are now showing the same behaviour with CoE.
Removal of the one-curse per target, the AoE effect, etc.

[bio347]

A recent tweet by Celestalon: "Different classes are different. Not every class needs free passive damage reduction (which you do have anyway: Shields)". He's talking about the shaman Lightning Shield glyph, but as a statement of philosophy you could easily rewrite it to read "Different classes are different. Not every class needs to apply their raid debuffs automagically."

Not that that will stop everyone who is offended by the very existence of CoE from hating it, but whatchagonnado?

[Zharradan]

yes, it needs to go.