1. #1
    The Patient ApeDosMil's Avatar
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    [WOD] Druid's Enhanced Berserk Perk

    If you aren't familiar with it, Enhanced Berserk is one of the perks we Feral Druids will be getting randomly between 91 and 99. http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=157269

    While Berserk is active, our maximum Energy is increased by 50. Cool, right? At first, I thought it was, but now, I don't really know how that's helpful.

    During Berserk you have reduced Energy costs, and generally, during this window, while your two dots are up and savage roar is too, you just wanna get as many attacks in to maximize damage. What I don't get is how this perk would increase our damage in any way. I'm always below 50 energy if not lower during Berserk. What reason would I want to pool energy above normal max during this time?

    I am not a doomsayer by any means, if you take in consideration that every class's burst is being nerfed, it looks like Feral's damage is looking to be buffed with the perks, ability pruning/changes, talent changes, positional/combo changes, etc.

    So, my question is, has anyone figured out how to use this perk to their foreseeable advantage? Please discuss!

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by ApeDosMil View Post
    If you aren't familiar with it, Enhanced Berserk is one of the perks we Feral Druids will be getting randomly between 91 and 99. http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=157269

    While Berserk is active, our maximum Energy is increased by 50. Cool, right? At first, I thought it was, but now, I don't really know how that's helpful.

    During Berserk you have reduced Energy costs, and generally, during this window, while your two dots are up and savage roar is too, you just wanna get as many attacks in to maximize damage. What I don't get is how this perk would increase our damage in any way. I'm always below 50 energy if not lower during Berserk. What reason would I want to pool energy above normal max during this time?

    I am not a doomsayer by any means, if you take in consideration that every class's burst is being nerfed, it looks like Feral's damage is looking to be buffed with the perks, ability pruning/changes, talent changes, positional/combo changes, etc.

    So, my question is, has anyone figured out how to use this perk to their foreseeable advantage? Please discuss!
    I guess your gear is not that good then (pve-wise). At high levels of gear and/or during periods of high energy regen your energy usually caps and thats a dps loss. With WoD making us do more "direct dmg" again instead of bleeds u will want to pop your cds when u can do the most damage (bloodlust is one of those cases) so this perk helps to make sure u dont cap energy. That means more dps

  3. #3
    The Patient ApeDosMil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamcrushed View Post
    I guess your gear is not that good then (pve-wise). At high levels of gear and/or during periods of high energy regen your energy usually caps and thats a dps loss. With WoD making us do more "direct dmg" again instead of bleeds u will want to pop your cds when u can do the most damage (bloodlust is one of those cases) so this perk helps to make sure u dont cap energy. That means more dps
    Naw, my gear is pretty great for my ilvl. How much haste are you stacking? I never cap. Ever. Good point with bloodlust though.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ApeDosMil View Post
    Naw, my gear is pretty great for my ilvl. How much haste are you stacking? I never cap. Ever. Good point with bloodlust though.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tytat/advanced
    As you can see i reforge out of haste everywhere i can but still cap energy on berserk specially on bloodlust. You usually want to use tiger's fury right before berserk so u will start berserking with a full or close to full energy bar so its easy to cap energy (unless u Thrash w/o an OoC proc)

  5. #5
    The Patient ApeDosMil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamcrushed View Post
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tytat/advanced
    As you can see i reforge out of haste everywhere i can but still cap energy on berserk specially on bloodlust. You usually want to use tiger's fury right before berserk so u will start berserking with a full or close to full energy bar so its easy to cap energy (unless u Thrash w/o an OoC proc)
    Not denying its happening to you. You do have a good 22 ilvls over me, but proportionately less haste than I do. /shrug
    I just don't cap energy. Maybe that extra 1000 haste you have brings up energy regen to just above gcd'ed energy spending while bloodlust or tiger's fury/serk.

    More I think about it, whether energy regen is as high as yours for the average feral or not, we do know they intend to make all stats better for all specs. Maybe haste will give us more regen than it currently does WoD, making that perk perfect. Or my wish comes true, and the perk gets changed to increased max combo points while serk is up. That I can use the crap out of. Can't tell you how many times I've crit on 4 going on 5 combo points.

  6. #6
    You still get OoC procs during berserk right?
    loljk

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ApeDosMil View Post
    I just don't cap energy.
    The way to make the most out of Berserk is to pool as much energy as possible before using it, generally using TF right before it as well. More often than not a random OoC proc is going to cause you to cap energy, I cap on almost every fight that we bloodlust on the pull. The perk is a nice change that is going to prevent that waste.

    The perks also do not have to provide any sort of damage boost, or be balanced between classes. Just think of them like quality of life changes, which Enhanced Berserk is a perfect example of.

  8. #8
    The Patient ApeDosMil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraineth View Post
    The way to make the most out of Berserk is to pool as much energy as possible before using it, generally using TF right before it as well. More often than not a random OoC proc is going to cause you to cap energy, I cap on almost every fight that we bloodlust on the pull. The perk is a nice change that is going to prevent that waste.

    The perks also do not have to provide any sort of damage boost, or be balanced between classes. Just think of them like quality of life changes, which Enhanced Berserk is a perfect example of.
    See, that makes sense. Thank you. My main is Feral, but I am by no means elite. I do flex now and plan on doing normals, maybe heroics with WoD. /shrugs
    Guess I was just doing berserk wrong (lol). As for perks not all giving damage boosts, I knew as much, just figured since I knew how to make all the others work for me, I should figure out how to make that one work for me as well. Like I said, I'm loving all the Feral changes/pruning/perks/talents in WoD so far.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kekkeri View Post
    You still get OoC procs during berserk right?
    Yup. So, I figure since I don't usually pool too much before Berserk, this is why I don't cap. I see now that Enhanced Berserk will be useful. Just gotta make sure I pool a bit more before using Berserk.

  9. #9
    Pandaren Monk Moosie's Avatar
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    You are assuming that feral stays the way it down now, in which yeah, we do cap energy during berserk, so this talent, for a MoP feral is pretty useless, but we do not know how ferals will look in WoD. All we have at the moment is very basic alpha stuff, no tuning has been done, and talents are still been changed around. For all we know, they could make berserk increase damage, instead of halving the energy cost. We simply do not know until we at least get into beta, and even then things change so much.
    Last edited by Moosie; 2014-05-26 at 05:56 PM.
    Moosie <After Hours> : Feral / Restoration

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Moosie View Post
    You are assuming that feral stays the way it down now, in which yeah, we do cap energy during berserk, so this talent, for a MoP feral is pretty useless, but we do not know how ferals will look in WoD. All we have at the moment is very basic alpha stuff, no tuning has been done, and talents are still been changed around. For all we know, they could make berserk increase damage, instead of halving the energy cost. We simply do not know until we at least get into beta, and even then things change so much.
    Yep completely and utterly useless in MoP. Hopefully in WoD something changes so that it will be useful.

  11. #11
    It will help because our energy expenditures are inconsistent due to things like clearcasting, rip/roar/thrash timers, and crits (especially with soul of the forest). Even at 580+ gear levels with bloodlust and soul of the forest you aren't going to be capping for the entire duration of berserk (assuming you're casting every GCD).

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamcrushed View Post
    I guess your gear is not that good then (pve-wise). At high levels of gear and/or during periods of high energy regen your energy usually caps and thats a dps loss. With WoD making us do more "direct dmg" again instead of bleeds u will want to pop your cds when u can do the most damage (bloodlust is one of those cases) so this perk helps to make sure u dont cap energy. That means more dps
    My maths isn't great but I don't see how capping energy is a DPS loss if you're also GCD capped, which you should be in your scenario. If there was no cap at all on energy you still wouldn't do more DPS as you'd be GCD capped.

    Provided they give you the extra 50 energy along with the larger cap, the only way this perk will help is if you run out of energy during berserk. If they don't give you the extra 50 energy then it's no help in any situation.

    Am I missing something?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Akropolis View Post
    My maths isn't great but I don't see how capping energy is a DPS loss if you're also GCD capped, which you should be in your scenario. If there was no cap at all on energy you still wouldn't do more DPS as you'd be GCD capped.

    Provided they give you the extra 50 energy along with the larger cap, the only way this perk will help is if you run out of energy during berserk. If they don't give you the extra 50 energy then it's no help in any situation.

    Am I missing something?
    Feral is not GCD capped, our dps is limited by the amount of energy we have during each fight. Capping energy, and thus wasting energy that would be gained if you weren't capped, is lost potential dps no matter how you look at it.

    The idea behind the perk, is so that with proper usage you can make the most out of each berserk cast (Filling as many GCD's as possible during halved energy costs) while not wasting the energy that would be used once berserk is over.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    If it grants an extra 50 energy, akin to the cata talent that increased your energy cap when you used Berserk/TF, then it would help with AoE situations, in which you are more likely to run out of energy.

    If it does NOT grant an extra 50 energy but just increases the energy cap to 150 during berserk, then all it means is that you can have a TF/Berserk macro and you can use it below 90 energy instead of below 40 energy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  15. #15
    I was curious about this and added the Berserk Perk to Catus (Note: Catus is still a MoP simulator). You can enable this feature under the "Internal Features" section. You can get some immediate results using "Simulator: Quick Compare" > Benchmark: Special: "WoD Perk: Berserk", which simulates your current configuration with this feature enabled and disabled side-by-side.

    I did a simulation after adding this feature using BiS gear and got a very poor result:
    http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopi...art=975#p22607

    Since TF should be aligned with Berserk and TF must be used before Berserk, this perk doesn't influence when you use Berserk -- you still need to be below 40 energy, so you can TF to 100 and then use Berserk. The only energy savings you get is very minimal during the first few seconds of this sequence. Without a Clearcast during Berserk, you barely save any energy. Catus was suggesting something like ~25 energy over a 7.5min fight. As you increase latency, this perk becomes more valuable. But overall for PvE, this perk is positive but not very strong. For PvP however, Berserk is usually when you will get CC'd. Having a larger reservoir is useful in this situation.

    That said, not all Perks need to be direct DPS improvements. I wish they would of added the extra energy ceiling to TF, like the old Primal Madness (2/2) talent.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raffy View Post
    That said, not all Perks need to be direct DPS improvements. I wish they would of added the extra energy ceiling to TF, like the old Primal Madness (2/2) talent.
    While not every perk does directly increase dps, almost ALL perks increase character power in some way. I would say that this perk increases character power the LEAST out of ALL perks, even behind the monk's 25% faster rolling perk (which only gives like an extra .1 seconds of time per roll). Basically, this perk is trash. I would suggest adding an extra 5 seconds to berserk, akin to the Guardian perk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kraineth View Post
    Feral is not GCD capped, our dps is limited by the amount of energy we have during each fight. Capping energy, and thus wasting energy that would be gained if you weren't capped, is lost potential dps no matter how you look at it.

    The idea behind the perk, is so that with proper usage you can make the most out of each berserk cast (Filling as many GCD's as possible during halved energy costs) while not wasting the energy that would be used once berserk is over.
    This is incorrect. Your loss of DPS during berserk is because you're GCD capped, not energy capped. Outside of berserk being energy capped is a DPS loss as every unit of energy wasted could have been spent on DPS, something that's not true during Berserk state. they could give you 1000 energy during berserk and it wouldn't matter.

    Unless you're not using every GCD, you're already making the most out of every berserk. This perk is useless.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    all it means is that you can have a TF/Berserk macro and you can use it below 90 energy instead of below 40 energy.
    Wouldn't that waste 50 energy? Since you cannot use TF during berserk?

    Energy-90/100, hit TF
    Energy-100/100, hit Berserk
    Energy-100/150 during berserk

    Something akin?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Akropolis View Post
    Unless you're not using every GCD, you're already making the most out of every berserk. This perk is useless.
    This is only true if you're also coming out of every berserk with full (80-100) energy.

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