Does the WoW population have more Tanks now than it did years ago?

[Lovestar]

I was arguing with some friends recently about whether WoW's changes to Tanking has increased or decreased the quantity available.

The (friendly) argument followed a few points:

• If we had queueable content in TBC, would the queues have popped faster or slower?
• If we had queuable raids during WOTLK, would the queues have popped faster or slower?
• Today, after all the many Tanking changes to Threat and rotations, do queues pop faster or slower?
• Overall, are there more Tanks now?

In favor of there being more Tanks now is this line of thinking:

• Threat, one of the most intimidating things to a new Tank, has been more-or-less trivialized. This should making Tanking easier to succeed at, so more people should be willing to do it and keep doing it after trying it.
• Gear requirements for Tanking have melted significantly, with much more ability to share DPS and Tank sets (at least to an adequate, if not optimal, performance level), so again this should make more people willing to Tank, at least as an off-spec or to get queue pops.
• Rotations have been revamped in MoP to be more engaging/rewarding/fun (hypothetically), so again, this should draw more people to Tanking.
• Blizzard long ago started outright bribing Tanks to queue for matchmade content.

On the other side of the argument is this line of thinking:

• Even if there's more Tanks overall, there may be fewer in the queue than ever, because the changes to Threat accidentally had the side-effect of changing non-Tank behavior to become so toxic and uncooperative that Tanks had fled the queue in mass exodus.
• Threat, Gear, and Rotations are nice, but the fundamental scary things about Tanking — Leading, Tactical responsibility, Organization of pulls, Positioning, "going first", more responsibility for wipes if you mess up or are new, etc. have not changed, therefore, Tanking populations probably haven't changed much either.

I've been leaning in favor of argument #1, that all these changes to make Tanking more accessible must have done so — with it being easier to succeed at Tanking, more people should be doing it, right?

But then, anecdote is anecdote. What are your opinions and experiences?

And, more importantly, does anyone know if there's been actual numbers or rough commentary about the topic from Blizzard, or at least player-made studies?

[Deleted]

I think vanilla and TBC had the most tanks, mainly because of larger raids. Oh the good old days with 40 man raids!

[Lochton]

The Burning Crusade and Wrath had the most tanks within my area of community. In The Burning Crusade, being a tank could mean good income as well as many possibilities. There was always a raid who announced on trade that they needed a replacement tank due to happenings either ingame or RL. Answers would instantly fall through the chat and directly into a raid group (Again, this is what I have experienced on my servers). When my raid progressed past of previous raids, raised in tiers. Then I normally offered myself for a little coin of course, to people stuck at lower tiers.

We quite a healthy size, we even had our own custom channel just to find a tank. Was easier at times, I admit.

And wrath, well, was the boom of over-tanking. Get that gear shining, and don't hesitate to jump into a raid. You needed as much gear as you could get hands on, and then press forward with... stamina gems.

But previous expansions from Wrath and back were a little more challenging too, you had more threat management. You felt more in your place back then. Encouraged to do what you might find fitting for you.

Today's business with tanks, it seems more volatile. Seen people literally do a 180 on their first day of lvl 90 tanking in a LFG HC, or LFR. You just seem to find bad apples easier in Mists of Pandaria, and it isn't because of the expansion I think - it is just their general attitude.

So don't think we have more tanks now, than years ago. Unless they are building up via the boosting system, but refuses to tank certain things. Else we still seem to miss tanks quite easily. If you find a good tank for your raid group, superglue him/her to the chair and keep him/her as your tank.

[FuxieDK]

Tank population have declined rapidly since TBC..

TBC was easy to find tanks for pugs
WotLK was moderate to find tanks for pugs
Cata was hard to find tanks for pugs
Mop was awful to find tanks for pugs

Especially MoP ruined the fun in tanking, with the annoying active mitigation...

[Revi]

I think people are a lot less afraid to try tanking now, with how easy it's become. Sadly, that's also why so many tanks have gone to different roles, it's so easy now.
Active mitigation sounds good in theory, but it didn't turn out that great imo. They've also made tactics on boss fights far easier for tanks than for anyone else. The ONLY engaging thing about tanking for me now is trying to maximize damage, but even that is far more fun as dps.

I vastly preferred the old tanking model, where threat was relevant and the skill of the tank was very noticeable by the raids' dps.
Strangely I stay tank because of things outside of the "role". The short queues, personal responsibility, and 'authority' to lead groups/pug raids and set pace.

[Deleted]

Regardless of what people say, the about of tank per player havent changed. Its just as hard to find tanks today as back in the days.

But what makes it harder today is that they have to get throught flex to get into normal, and then they have to gain 20-30 ilvls before anyone want them for any worthwhile content.

[Wilian]

I know many whom used to tank in the past (including myself) but do not do that anymore due to how fucking boring Blizzard has made the tank-game.

[Splatter]

I think vanilla and TBC had the most tanks, mainly because of larger raids. Oh the good old days with 40 man raids!

Well thats not really accurate. You still only used 2-3 tanks in a 40 man. (with some exceptions) The tank to dps ratio is a lot higher now. A lot of tanks just don't like to pug because of the abuse they recieve so they only run for guild groups. TBC used 2-3 tanks with 25 mans as well.

[Tntdruid]

I don't tank pugs too many angry kids there

[PrairieChicken]

In old days warriors were only tank class. Now we have 5

[Tehterokkar]

Especially MoP ruined the fun in tanking, with the annoying active mitigation...

Do. Not. Comprehend.

Making you actually pay attention to stuff like DPS/Healers makes Tanking suddenly not fun? Tanking is the best it's ever been in WoW. I've played each tank class since Wrath and MoP by far is the best experience. Not only because of Vengeance but because what you do as a Tank actually matters(lol hi WotLK mana sponges). Cata was a step in the right direction but MoP nailed it perfectly.

[Deleted]

i must say, Wrath was the good times for tanking in my opinion.. atleast on my DK.

[Revi]

Do. Not. Comprehend.

Making you actually pay attention to stuff like DPS/Healers makes Tanking suddenly not fun? Tanking is the best it's ever been in WoW. I've played each tank class since Wrath and MoP by far is the best experience. Not only because of Vengeance but because what you do as a Tank actually matters(lol hi WotLK mana sponges). Cata was a step in the right direction but MoP nailed it perfectly.

In Vanilla/TBC threat was VERY important, you can't say what you do matters more now. If you played poorly back then, dps would either have to throttle themselves or die, leading to wipes and enrage timers. If you play poorly now, healers will have to heal you a bit more (nps though, infinite mana).

Active mitigation doesn't make you pay attention to dps or healers more than threat and limited mana pools did. Vengeance means we're balanced and sometimes overpowered in raids, but really weak outside of them. I'd rather my power be consistent in all content, like it is for dps and healers.

[Deleted]

Tanking is the best it's ever been in WoW. I've played each tank class since Wrath and MoP by far is the best experience.

I don't know about you but I have been the main tank for 9 years now and I can, with certainty, say that I haven't been as fucking bored with tanking in the game EVER as I have in MoP (perhaps in vanilla because bear tanking was pretty hideous back then).

The whole "active mitigation" is a joke - all I do is press a button every 6 seconds when there's a chance for a bigger hit or just when I'm bored or have excess rage to go around (which is always since my rage is at max almost all the time, it's absurd). And no, I don't do Heroic Raiding so I can't comment on how it's like there but on anything lower it's just an incredibly boring affair to be a (guardian) tank.

Edit:
As for number of tanks - there are more tanks but as a side effect so many of them are incredibly bad that rely 100% on healers keeping them up (this in pugs/lfr/flex)

[Durandro]

In Vanilla/TBC threat was VERY important, you can't say what you do matters more now. If you played poorly back then, dps would either have to throttle themselves or die, leading to wipes and enrage timers. If you play poorly now, healers will have to heal you a bit more (nps though, infinite mana).

Have you played since Wrath? Because you've got it all wrong.

Threat is still important. You can still lose it. But its more important during the pull and on adds.

And you play badly now? You die.

And healer infinite mana? Are you kidding?

[Deleted]

Threat is still important. You can still lose it.

Dude, you are hilarious. There is no way on earth I lose aggro on mobs in MoP - it is just not possible.

Well ok, if I go away for 5 minutes and then come back to hit them once, then I may lose aggro but apart from that.. seriously. Just no.

[Deleted]

I would imagine the tanking population is flatlining, at least for pugs. The reason being that the people in pugs are all too quick to flame the tank for anything, even for their own mistakes.

[Revi]

Have you played since Wrath? Because you've got it all wrong.

Threat is still important. You can still lose it. But its more important during the pull and on adds.

And you play badly now? You die.

And healer infinite mana? Are you kidding?

What? How can you lose threat? I play a DK, arguably the lowest snap threat of all the tanks, and I have never had an issue with that. ever.
And I disagree, with druid hots rolling and a beacon of light on me, there's very little that would kill me if I decided to go afk 30 seconds, and that's as a DK with the lowest passive damage reduction apart from monks without shuffle.

Healers should have no problem with mana as long as people use their damage reduction CDs, self heals, and don't stand in shit.

[makketota]

I don't know about you but I have been the main tank for 9 years now and I can, with certainty, say that I haven't been as fucking bored with tanking in the game EVER as I have in MoP (perhaps in vanilla because bear tanking was pretty hideous back then).

The whole "active mitigation" is a joke - all I do is press a button every 6 seconds when there's a chance for a bigger hit or just when I'm bored or have excess rage to go around (which is always since my rage is at max almost all the time, it's absurd). And no, I don't do Heroic Raiding so I can't comment on how it's like there but on anything lower it's just an incredibly boring affair to be a (guardian) tank.

Edit:
As for number of tanks - there are more tanks but as a side effect so many of them are incredibly bad that rely 100% on healers keeping them up (this in pugs/lfr/flex)

I agree that guardian druids active mitigation is abit boring. I can't see how its more boring than before though. I did proving grounds title on both Guardian and Paladin. And it was 100x more fun on the paladin, where I really had to plan every CD and apply high vengance Eternal Flames to have a chance. On the druid I think I only used 2-3 tries to get wave 30.

[Dasani]

The number of viable tanks has increased, for sure.

Once upon a time warriors were the only tanks and it took a very long time to grind your way to level 60. It wasn't like these days where you can say "well shit, imma reroll a warlock" and level 1 to 90 in like 2-3 days of real time then get carried through SOO normal by your gear for some easy starting gear. Good tanks were extremely rare and hard to come by.

In addition to tanks only being warriors, warriors could also only be tanks. I mean sure you had people who had no idea what they were doing and had absolutely no concept of end game or anything like that who leveled as arms and fury and thought it was cool and they'd stick with it, but when you entered the reality of the raiding world you quickly come to find out you're useless if you don't tank. Only time you ever got to dps was when you were doing fights that didn't require quite so many tanks, but at the end of the day you were still an off tank, even if you were DPS specced at the time.

So fast forward to burning crusade, they allowed druids and paladins to "sort of" tank. And I say sort of because they did a shit job of it and had mechanics in place to prettymuch FORCE you to continue to use a warrior main tank. All the "OG" warrior tanks from vanilla who were used to being main tanks kept their jobs, but were now supplemented with others. Couldn't even tank illidan without a warrior tank or a block capped paladin, druids couldn't do it (unless you were so geared by the end of the expansion you were one of the few who achieved 100% avoidance and never got hit by melee attacks at all. Spoiler alert: this is why diminishing returns on parry and dodge was invented).

I think adding DKs and Monks, as well as making Paladins and Druids actually viable tanks made for a lot more tanks being around than ever before.

To me, seems tank numbers have only increased every expansion. Nowadays with threat being a complete non-issue and gearing up being faster and more convenient than ever before, just about everyone I know who plays a class even CAPABLE of tanking has the gear to do it. A lot of them don't do it often, if ever, but if they ever had the desire they could rapidly swap a couple of things and do it. Things have never been as convenient as they are today.

Tanks are of course still much much less common than DPS because most players have trog mentalities and think only comparing DPS numbers is fun, but there are many many more tanks around and available with each passing expansion.