As BM hunter is it too much lose to replace 80 agility with 160 haste?

[anjan011]

In an earlier thread, i think Azor saying haste values as 0.48 compared to 1 of Agility. If that is the case in current gear level, is it worth replacing 80 agility with 160 haste in various red and yellow gem slots?

As an experiment, i have changed one my my hunters gems: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...xtrix/advanced

Also, i tried a few raids, seems not too bad compared to agility setup. so my question is, how much the difference between 80 agility and 160 haste, in real combat (not the sim). Any one tried that?

[Deleted]

What do you mean by in real combat? By changing a few gems and doing a few fights with it to see if your dps improved? That will give almost no meaning whatsoever as there are so many variable factors on your performance that it is practically useless information. But no, you shouldn't be gemming agi/haste and 320 haste.

[Deleted]

Why would you replace a gem with a value of 1, with a gem with the value (2*0.48)?

[Azortharion]

0.48 * 160 = 76.8 = value of 160 haste in gear points.

1 * 80 = 80 = value of 80 agility in gear points.

The only reason to gem pure haste and shit atm would be super-mega-tryharding for ranks on Galakras. Haste surpasses half of Agility's value when 5+ targets are involved.

It explains why 60+ crit socket bonuses are worth going for though.

160 agility red gem = 160 gear points.

80 agility + 160 haste = 156,8 gear points + 60 * 0.42(critvalue) = 25,2 = 182 gear points for going for a 60+ crit socket bonus.

[Nemesiz]

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I assume that's in close to BiS gear where you are able to reach those high haste "breakpoints", also is this for Troll or rest of the races?

Other than that, when the whole raid team reaches 4/4 ilvl upgrades, adds uptime are gonna be reduced. How much would haste lose in value, and is it even possible to calculate? Let's say previously you could run about, 10 seconds beast cleave, now you can only get 6-8 seconds on a fight like Sha of Pride pr. Reflection spawn.

[Azortharion]

I assume that's in close to BiS gear where you are able to reach those high haste "breakpoints", also is this for Troll or rest of the races?

Other than that, when the whole raid team reaches 4/4 ilvl upgrades, adds uptime are gonna be reduced. How much would haste lose in value, and is it even possible to calculate? Let's say previously you could run about, 10 seconds beast cleave, now you can only get 6-8 seconds on a fight like Sha of Pride pr. Reflection spawn.

It's for everything, gear levels don't really matter, unless you're super close to a breakpoint (like within 300 haste) it's senseless to drop agility for haste.

Haste's loss of value on individual fights with AoE/cleave is irrelevant because Haste is better single-target as well, so while Haste may be "less good" because you'll be cleaving less, it won't change your decision with regards to stat choices.

[Nemesiz]

It's for everything, gear levels don't really matter, unless you're super close to a breakpoint (like within 300 haste) it's senseless to drop agility for haste.

Haste's loss of value on individual fights with AoE/cleave is irrelevant because Haste is better single-target as well, so while Haste may be "less good" because you'll be cleaving less, it won't change your decision with regards to stat choices.

I see, I was under the impression that haste was only better due to all the add fights this tier. Haven't simmed my char for a while, guess I should do it soon.

[Azortharion]

I see, I was under the impression that haste was only better due to all the add fights this tier. Haven't simmed my char for a while, guess I should do it soon.

Nah, Haste > Mastery > Crit is still > everything else (even ignoring breakpoints) on pure single-target across all imaginable fight lengths, the fact that there's so much cleave/AOE atm is just a bonus.

[nukias]

Pretty sure 160 haste is way better for BM than 80 agi.

[Jeremypwnz]

Pretty sure 160 haste is way better for BM than 80 agi.

Wrong.

Agi is worth 1 point while Haste is worth (depending on gear) between 0.42-0.48. So 2 points of Haste would be worth 0.84-0.96.

[Azortharion]

Pretty sure 160 haste is way better for BM than 80 agi.

Again, unless you can prove otherwise, quit post-whoring for the sake of it.

Or just quit posting blatant misinformation altogether.

[Nemesiz]

Again, unless you can prove otherwise, quit post-whoring for the sake of it.

Or just quit posting blatant misinformation altogether.

Idd, it's no a competition to have as many

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Idd, it's no a competition to have as many

posts as you can get.

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MMO-C is smart.... +1

[Libertarian]

The answer is always: sim it

[Rackfu]

In an earlier thread, i think Azor saying haste values as 0.48 compared to 1 of Agility. If that is the case in current gear level, is it worth replacing 80 agility with 160 haste in various red and yellow gem slots?

As an experiment, i have changed one my my hunters gems: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...xtrix/advanced

Also, i tried a few raids, seems not too bad compared to agility setup. so my question is, how much the difference between 80 agility and 160 haste, in real combat (not the sim). Any one tried that?

You changed one gem and then went and killed a few things..... and that is your basis for saying that haste could be better than agility?

A couple of things:

1) Changing one gem would be such a small gain or loss (depending on if it is actually better or not) that no amount of testing, even running it through a sim, could really tell you if it is better. I mean, seriously.... the difference between a single +160 haste or a +80 agility gem is fractions of 1% dps difference.

2) Simulations are always better than testing in game. Why you ask? Because it is testing something in a controlled environment where everything outside of testing the rotation is removed. No lag, no reaching for a drink of soda, no moving out of "fire", etc...

3) Simulations are also better because you can test them over and over and over... 10000+ times to get a range of possible outcomes and averages. Just going in and killing a few things means nothing. Maybe you got lucky with trinket procs and crit... maybe you got really unlucky.


No amount of in game combat or dummy testing will ever be better than running your toon through a simulation (assuming of course, the sim is set up correctly).

[Deleted]

Don't forget that the second you start replacing agility for haste, agility starts gaining more value while haste loses it.