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  1. #181
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  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    I'm certain all of them will be great law abiding citizens, considering they already started their move legally.

    Oh wait...
    Exactly.

    Look...I agree that the immigration system needs to be reworked. But, in our country, you do not have the right to ignore laws because they aren't functioning correctly.

    I'm always struck by two things when I hear about "rallies" for immigration reform.

    1. Supporters often claim that the illegal immigrants deserve to be treated as US citizens, with all the rights and benefits. Why? They AREN'T US citizens. They came here illegally. Their very first act was to break the law. I mean, really, think about it...even if you come here legally and break the law, we send your arse back.
    2. Obama and his Democratic supporters have been more interested in helping illegal immigrants than war veterans suffering because of the VA. Both are problems that he knew about when he was elected in 2008. But he's done far more to try and "fix" the immigration system.

  3. #183
    The Undying Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    2. Obama and his Democratic supporters have been more interested in helping illegal immigrants than war veterans suffering because of the VA. Both are problems that he knew about when he was elected in 2008. But he's done far more to try and "fix" the immigration system.
    Bull....
    Obama campaigned on the promise to fix the immigration issue, right the first year of his Presidency.
    He's done so, rightfully believing that he can take over where his predecessor left off. Bush tried to push it through as well, and he failed due to his own party cock blocking him. Obama probably would have fixed it, if it wouldn't have been for the economy collapse unfolding in full force. That matter became front and center stage of the governments attention. Ever since the immigration issue was basically forgotten. You can cry yourself as big of a river as you want. There are between 12 - 14 million illegal immigrants in the country with the vast majority being Latinos. The vast majority also didn't come this year, or last year, instead the majority is in the country for up to several decades. Most pay taxes, since getting a tax ID was, and still is independent from residency status.
    The country's ethnic balance shifts heavily towards Latinos being the largest population group. It's political suicide to ignore them. You can remove all illegal immigrants, and still the ethnic shift cannot be stopped. All you can achieve is to piss them off or make them happy.
    You make em happy, and they are going to be just as ordinary citizen as other ethnic groups.
    You piss them off, and someday soon they are big enough in size to create their own parties and kick the established parties out of Congress.
    The parties know that.
    Winning the Presidency today means you need the Latino votes. Without them, you won't win.
    And why? Latinos getting their asses off the couch and actually really vote.
    The other ethnic groups? Oh if you get 50% to vote, you've accomplished something.

    You must fix the immigration issue.... and imo there's only one way.
    Repeat the sweeping amnesty reform once more. The border security is now at levels that weren't there at all, when the last amnesty happened.
    Educate the average American that Amnesty does not mean US citizen. It never meant that. It only gives these people legal residency.
    It gives them a chance to prove to be citizens at some point years down the road.
    And, enforce the constitutional right of the federal government that states have to obey federal laws. With that, make it state business to enforce it. Local law enforcement should not be able to ignore the immigration status of people.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  4. #184
    The Undying Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralgarog View Post
    Its funny when articles report this but they conviently forget to report that this administration has deported 6 times as much people are the previous administration did and even though this administration prevented the returns of thousands of foreign nationals. But don't worry about that. 60,000 people are trying to illegally cross the border at a time when 6 across central and south America has went to shit.
    Yup....
    Another minor detail..... Up until 2 years ago (that makes it an Obama administration accomplishment) it was perfectly easy to obtain a Tax ID. One did not even need any proof of ID. Fill out a form, hand it in, receive your ID.
    That has been changed now 2 yrs ago. Now you have to provide at least a valid ID. Yet it still doesn't have to be a valid US ID.
    That it cannot be, due to people that factually do not reside in the US but do legal business and are subject to US taxes.
    But factually, it was Obama's administration that made it more difficult for illegals to obtain tax IDs.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralgarog View Post
    Yeah! How dare Obama's republican opposition block the majority of reforms such as the ACA? And how dare Obama's opposition block him trying to low interest rates for loans that veterans take out?

    Another thing that pisses me off is how much Obama's opposition is for destroying medicare and social security, which is often the primary way for a a lot of veterans to pay for certain services they require.

    If Obama was not the president, his opposition wont oppose him!!!!
    Obama campaigned on reforming immigration and, to that end, used executive orders to bypass congress whenever possible. Obama also campaigned on fixing the VA...even acknowledging "wait times." Once elected the VA fell off his radar. Hell...last week Carney used the old Obama "found out from the media" line.

    As far as blocking legislation goes...that accusation can be placed on BOTH parties. Congress has passed hundreds of bills (not counting repeals of Obamacare, of course) only to have Reid table them in the Senate...not even bringing them up for a vote.

    Yes Congressional Republicans have blocked a lot of Obama's immigration reform. That's because every one of Obama's proposals favors making immigration easier, and granting amnesty, while refusing to improve border security. That's pretty much ass-backwards. I mean...when you have a pipe that's flooding your bathroom, do you fix the bathroom first and THEN shut the water off?

    EDIT:
    Republicans have offered to address immigration reform in stages...starting with securing the borders. Obama has shown no interest in doing that, though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Yup....
    Another minor detail..... Up until 2 years ago (that makes it an Obama administration accomplishment) it was perfectly easy to obtain a Tax ID. One did not even need any proof of ID. Fill out a form, hand it in, receive your ID.
    That has been changed now 2 yrs ago. Now you have to provide at least a valid ID. Yet it still doesn't have to be a valid US ID.
    That it cannot be, due to people that factually do not reside in the US but do legal business and are subject to US taxes.
    But factually, it was Obama's administration that made it more difficult for illegals to obtain tax IDs.
    http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117412/deportations-under-obama-vs-bush-who-deported-more-immigrants

    "Under Bush, the majority of immigrants that the U.S. sent home were simply “returned.” Nobody took their fingerprints or put a permanent mark on their immigration records. Instead, U.S. authorities put them on buses and sent them back across the border. Between 2001 and 2008, there were over 8.3 million of these informal “returns,” according to the Department of Homeland Security. There were, by contrast, just 2 million “removals.” Those are the more formal deportations—the ones that go through some form of individual review, with an officer if not a judge, and become part of deportees’ permanent records.

    But in the second half of the Bush administration, DHS decided to up the number of “removals” and limit the number of “returns.” The government hoped to deter immigrants from sneaking back into the country by making it clear that the U.S. knew who they were—and could punish them more harshly if they showed up again. Under Obama, DHS has stuck with this policy. Between 2009 and 2012, the number of deportations and informal returns was roughly the same—about 1.6 million each. Add up all the relevant numbers, you’ll see removals are on track to end up higher under Obama than Bush (Lind’s point in Vox) but that removals plus returns will end up higher under Bush than Obama (Davis’ point in The Federalist)."

    So, as usual, Obama's Administration plays word-games and his ever-faithful eat it up like mindless drones.

  6. #186
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Yup....
    Another minor detail..... Up until 2 years ago (that makes it an Obama administration accomplishment) it was perfectly easy to obtain a Tax ID. One did not even need any proof of ID. Fill out a form, hand it in, receive your ID.
    That has been changed now 2 yrs ago. Now you have to provide at least a valid ID. Yet it still doesn't have to be a valid US ID.
    That it cannot be, due to people that factually do not reside in the US but do legal business and are subject to US taxes.
    But factually, it was Obama's administration that made it more difficult for illegals to obtain tax IDs.
    Sounds like a bad call to me. We want them paying taxes as much as possible.

    Of course, the ones that were already paying taxes were probably already working jobs that required them to have an SSID to begin with, even if that SSID was fraudulent.

    And yes, lots of illegal immigrants pay US taxes.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  7. #187
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    Obama and his Democratic supporters have been more interested in helping illegal immigrants than war veterans suffering because of the VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    So, as usual, Obama's Administration plays word-games and his ever-faithful eat it up like mindless drones.
    How can you call anyone else a mindless drone? You can't say shit like 'Democrats and Obama want to help illegals, more than veterans', to then call people mindless drones. You changing every argument into an attack on your perceived opponents, makes it seem like you don't care about either issue.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    And yes, lots of illegal immigrants pay US taxes.
    In states with a sales tax, all of them do.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
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  8. #188
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post

    In states with a sales tax, all of them do.
    income* taxes
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  9. #189
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=truckboattruck;27359949]so apparently...anyone in the world is an american if they jump the fence and proclaim they are american

    yay more people to replace my culture
    i am morally obligated to love this
    /QUOTE]

    Well, considering that how our nation started...

  10. #190
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    income* taxes
    I think illegals who make enough money to be out of poverty and have income that can be taxed, should have that be an indication of their ability to be well functioning citizens.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  11. #191
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    I think illegals who make enough money to be out of poverty and have income that can be taxed, should have that be an indication of their ability to be well functioning citizens.
    There are a lot who pay normal payroll taxes throughout the year and get no return because they don't want to be looked at too closely by the IRS.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by truckboattruck View Post
    so apparently...anyone in the world is an american if they jump the fence and proclaim they are american
    Which is totally not why the USA is as it is today.

    ...Okay, those ones rowed a boat gently across the sea rather than jumped a fence.

  13. #193
    Scarab Lord Naxere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralgarog View Post
    Its funny when articles report this but they conviently forget to report that this administration has deported 6 times as much people are the previous administration did and even though this administration prevented the returns of thousands of foreign nationals
    Source? Because according to the L.A. Times:

    But the portrait of a steadily increasing number of deportations rests on statistics that conceal almost as much as they disclose. A closer examination shows that immigrants living illegally in most of the continental U.S. are less likely to be deported today than before Obama came to office, according to immigration data.

    Expulsions of people who are settled and working in the United States have fallen steadily since his first year in office, and are down more than 40% since 2009.
    If you're talking about people just stopped at the border, then:

    On the other side of the ledger, the number of people deported at or near the border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency's deportation statistics.

    The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations. If all removals were tallied, the total sent back to Mexico each year would have been far higher under those previous administrations than it is now.
    Quote Originally Posted by nôrps View Post
    I just think you retards are starting to get ridiculous with your childish language.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    How can you call anyone else a mindless drone? You can't say shit like 'Democrats and Obama want to help illegals, more than veterans', to then call people mindless drones. You changing every argument into an attack on your perceived opponents, makes it seem like you don't care about either issue.

    - - - Updated - - -



    In states with a sales tax, all of them do.
    Mindless-drone = Someone who believes everything Obama says and believes he can do no wrong.

    I CAN use that term because I never applied it to all of the Democratic party. The question is...how can you, seriously and honestly, claim that there AREN'T people who just eat anything Obama says as gospel?

    OT:
    So apparently ICE officials in south Texas flew 400 illegal immigrants (undocumented workers for you PC police). Did they fly them home? Nope. They flew them up to Arizona and dropped them at Greyhound bus stations in Tucson and Pheonix.

    Immigration officials claim that the illegal immigrants are from central America. As such Mexico won't take them and the deportation process will be long and costly. (Something compounded by a lack of detention space.) So, instead, they dropped them in another state...with instructions that they have to visit the local ICE office within 15 days.

    Yeah, I don't see that happening.

    http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/pol...-bus-stations/
    And for those of you who don't trust Fox...
    http://www.opposingviews.com/i/polit...ations-arizona
    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...izona/9707503/
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0E92CU20140529

  15. #195
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    Mindless-drone = Someone who believes everything Obama says and believes he can do no wrong.

    I CAN use that term because I never applied it to all of the Democratic party. The question is...how can you, seriously and honestly, claim that there AREN'T people who just eat anything Obama says as gospel?
    You can say what ever you want, but realize that what you are saying is equivalent to believing everything said about Obama and that he can do no right. The question should be, seriously and honestly, do you believe that you are not the same as those you complain about?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  16. #196
    The Lightbringer Toxigen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
    Mexico makes some good coke.
    fixT - thats the biggest import...cocaine

    Just send all the fucking Mexicans back to their own shitty country.
    "There are two types of guys in this world. Guys who sniff their fingers after scratching their balls, and dirty fucking liars." -StylesClashv3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    Not finding-a-cock-on-your-girlfriend-is-normal level of odd, but nevertheless, still odd.

  17. #197
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    fixT - thats the biggest import...cocaine
    Why do they need to import cocaine? Mexico's largest export is crude petrol, while it's largest import is refined petrol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    Just send all the fucking Mexicans back to their own shitty country.
    As long as you are willing to do their jobs for the same compensation. You can even get all the benefits illegals get...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

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