Heroic Thok - 25 Man (Prot)

[Bopit759]

So after an excruciating 16 million wipe due to our resident potato brained Fury warrior grabbing the key instead of me and getting ~ 5 people eaten right before fire phase, I'm trying to find anything we can do better next week as it's our extension week and I would like to get 2 days in on SCB (or not cus you know, fuck siegecrafter).


I recently switched mains from Prot Pally to Prot Warrior so I can still use pointers and this is the best place to find them!

Here are last nights logs, the second to last pull was the pull that we got to 1% on.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4504&e=5105

and Armory

http://www.us.battle.net/wow/en/char...Trogxar/simple



I have the worst luck on rings ignore them! besides that though we began getting 27-29 stacks consistently in phase 1 then figured out how to handle the bats fairly well and taunts on the ice phase were pretty much a non issue, I began soloing the first phase because /lol SBAR and our paladin was getting killed a lot when taunting at higher stacks. I'm fairly certain we have it all down and it just needs practice but there is always room to improve.

A few questions concerning Sblock/Sbar, and around when to start going straight into Sbar.... I was starting to go Sbar>Sblock at the point when Sbar was ~900k+ (somewhere in the 8-10 stack region?) and only using Sblock when possible and it wouldn't rage starve me for a screech and this worked fairly well. Should I avoid Sblock entirely at that point or continue to weave it in where possible for bigger SS's?

I wasn't noticing any issues with surviving there but I want to err on the side of caution till this is farm.

We were at ~16-18 % leaving the ice phase so we may just be able to kill him in the kite phase on Tuesday since there will always be more dps on a fresh Tuesday as opposed to 1 am on a Thursday.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh forgot to mention to ignore the UH DK, hes MS blood and never does any fights as dps, we are simply abusing Lights Hammer with vengeance.

[Pothelegitba]

I would say for low stacks use SB to get dmg up, but around 4-5 SBar all the way. You should get upwards of 600k Sbars, which is pretty nice lol

[Bopit759]

I was noticing that my health was not even dipping until around the 7th screech or so, and I would like to max out my SB up-time for bugger shield slams, but I'm still putting up a Sbar whenever I have enough rage to. After 7-8 I swap to Sbar first and then only butting up Sblock if I have plenty of rage between barriers.

Bats do a ludicrously small amount of damage to me so I just Sblock during them and nuke hard, then for the ice phase we are taunting at 4 and I just Sblock or Sbar according to my damage intake prior to taunting and just gauge how much I'm taking before swapping off again.


I'm aiming for high 400k low 500k dps on this which seems doable but I just don't feel as comfortable with my warrior as I was on my paladin and at times I think I'm still hesitating a little bit and losing out on some extra SS's and devastates.

[Deleted]

Quick glance at the logs it seems you prioritize Revenge over SS, just try to hit SS whenever possible. I checked some other logs and you have used SS same amount of times than other warriors with 3 minutes quicker Thok fights.

[Bopit759]

That's kind of what I suspected, I come from the fury mindset of getting everything into CS, and seem to treat SBlock like CS for SS. I may need to just go to just using it every time it's up and work on that. It could also be due to low Sword and Boards, but not sure. my crit is fairly low compared to most prots because of the parry and dodge I'm missing from IJ chest and rings. It's rare for me to get more than one SnB proc before SS runs its full cooldown. (~43% Crit with Riposte up iirc.)

I will try to prioritize SS more though and see what that changes.

[Novaflare]

Crit has nothing to do with SnB procs. It's a flat 30% chance to proc when you use devastate.

Further, even if you don't proc SnB, Shield Slam still does like twice the damage of revenge and has a chance to proc a free heroic strike as well ontop of that. There's really no reason not to prioritize it over revenge, even though it is very difficult to resist the siren call of the flashy revenge button as it comes off cd every gcd.

Edit: Had a look at your logs, you've got a pretty insane imbalance in revenge to devastate uses. I'm only 567 ilvl so maybe I don't have as much dodge/parry as you but how the heck do you make it through a 10 minute fight with only using devastate 27 times? It's no wonder your SnB proc # is so low, you barely use devastate at all.

[Gliff]

I use Barrier when the boss gets to the point where he is just chain casting and not actually attacking.

[Bopit759]

@nova thanks for pointing that out lol I must have mixed up lacerate with devastate, but yes I need to Dev. a lot more. It has a lot to do with familiarity/muscle memory, I'm just not in the habit of it yet still largely used to the 1231 pally rotation.

@Gliff That's what I found to work the best, thanks for confirming! I just wasn't sure if it was worth it sill Sblock or not.

[meteo]

@nova thanks for pointing that out lol I must have mixed up lacerate with devastate, but yes I need to Dev. a lot more. It has a lot to do with familiarity/muscle memory, I'm just not in the habit of it yet still largely used to the 1231 pally rotation.

Not really. Keep spamming revenge, just prioritize SS over it and you're fine as long as you use devastate once every 30s to keep sunder armor up. If you glyph TC, you will have yet an other button to use over devastate (and a small dps increase).

[Bopit759]

Ah, so I wasn't doing it totally wrong! I spent an hour or so last night trying to wrap my head around a logical reason to want to use Dev more than to keep sunder up and couldn't fathom using it rather than gaining rage. Makes a lot more sense the way you put it, to be honest I largely forgot about sunder as it's not something I ever had to worry about keeping up manually.

[Novaflare]

Yeah don't get me wrong, as long as you're not wasting GCDs the way it is right now is fine, I'm just a bit surprised that you get so many revenge procs that you only have to use devastate once every 22~ seconds.

[Skillfall]

< New Account, name was available without numbers!

Anyway, that makes me feel a bit better haha.

I generally almost always have a revenge available, with only ~4-5 seconds at most going without a parry resetting it. I do need to use SS more however, I haven't noticed any difference in output but I also haven't tanked anything with any real vengeance since Thursday either.

[Odina]

We got our second kill of this guy on Wednesday and he is still very much progress for us (as you will see on the wipe fest that was wed!)

I solo tank all of P1 , I start on thok in P2 until the bats come down then I swap to bats and banner them and then off tank until transition, then for P3 I solo tank thok again. We go the Normal, Green, Blue, red(if needed) route. As our group is a prot war prot pallie and this is still progress for us so maybe you can find something in my logs that might stand out a bit to help.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1...=10583&e=11063

That was last weds fight. The one thing I noticed is you are taking shock wave... but really that is just good for bats and most of the fight is not bats but just burning thok thus perhaps you would be better off with DR? Being in a 25 man you should have a ton of stuns at your disposal if that is what it's for and there should be no issues there. Just seems like giving up DR with as much veng as you get just to stun bats is a bad call for over all raid dps.

As for S.bar sblock.. to be honest I find that from pull to pull that changes! Some pulls it's like you have to spam S.barrier at like 3 stacks and whenever possible...others it's as though you don't even need it and healers just keep you topped constantly. For my self I tend to see the swap start at about 5 and then try rotating some cd's in and getting some exterior cd's in and keeping s.block up as much as I can and barrier if I notice some "o shit moments".

I love this fight it's so much fun for veng whoering ...sad that this style of tanking will go but looking forward to balanced dmg at the same time!

PS: Another thing to look at on the rev and SS is just look at the avg hits each one is hitting for. I get the CS rotation mentality but if anything will make a dps oriented war change there priority it's looking at the AVG hit dmg each spell does. Granted G.HR playes a huge part in it but just look

Avg SS hit is 694K
Avg rev hit 300K
Thus you need to cast 2 revenges for the dmg of 1 SS ... makes pressing SS whenever it's avail the clear winner When dealing with a dps bad habit you just got to look at the dps numbers... as soon as you can put better dps to one way or the other the dps whore will always do whats better... works for me anyhow :P

[Skillfall]

Exactly! I just needed to get it into my head, and make my fingers remember, hey hit that button tard. Did some flex/clear etc and got closer to where I want to be with usage rest is more time spent doing it etc.

I'm only taking Shock Wave since it is still progression, and while its not a guaranteed crit like DR is, it does tend to hit for 700K - 1.2M (not looking at logs just going off what hits I remember seeing) and having the extra stun for bats makes me prefer it until this is farm content.

I think I am going to switch to tanking him to start with at the beginning of the acid phase as well since any vengeance remaining from not removing the jailers enrage has fallen off by the time the bats come down and having a decent amount of vengeance for them would certainly help kill them faster.

[Odina]

I see you had another go at it last night! Looks like the dmg is way better now and looks like you are making a solid stride towards getting the kill.

One thing I did notice though is it looks like 2 of your wars are on the same timer (not sure what you are using for CD assignments) and are tossing down demo banner and rallying cry at the same time instead of spreading them out and covering a bigger timeline.

Here is the 10 min fights demo banner casts that line up with rallying cry :

[22:41:47.307] Trogxar casts Demoralizing Banner
[22:41:48.246] Katypärry casts Demoralizing Banner
[22:41:55.579] Pokingyou casts Demoralizing Banner
[22:42:12.484] Chaostheorÿ casts Demoralizing Banner
[22:44:30.842] Coltraine casts Demoralizing Banner
[22:46:48.506] Pokingyou casts Demoralizing Banner
[22:46:50.968] Katypärry casts Demoralizing Banner
[22:47:13.916] Trogxar casts Demoralizing Banner
[22:49:28.744] Coltraine casts Demoralizing Banner


As you can see you and Katy use demo and rally at the same time and then Katyparry and Pokingyou do the same as well. Just one thing that jumped out when looking at the logs seeing as you can carpet a much larger time frame if you were to be casting at the end / just as the other wars demo rally were going to end instead of 2 seconds in to there's seeing as banner is up for 15 seconds. With 5 wars you are looking at 1 minute and 15 seconds of demo banner uptime if timed perfectly!

here is the rally cry time stamps:
[22:41:46.136] Trogxar casts Rallying Cry
[22:41:47.307] Katypärry casts Rallying Cry
[22:41:54.701] Pokingyou casts Rallying Cry
[22:42:13.074] Chaostheorÿ casts Rallying Cry
[22:44:27.054] Coltraine casts Rallying Cry
[22:46:47.540] Pokingyou casts Rallying Cry
[22:46:50.219] Katypärry casts Rallying Cry
[22:49:09.240] Trogxar casts Rallying Cry
[22:49:27.845] Coltraine casts Rallying Cry

As you can see there are some rally cry's that you are out right wasting as they are cast at the same time.

I didn't go over all the other CD's but looking at these it looks like you need to fix the cd assignments a tad to better cover it.

If you are looking at improving yout dps you could also set upa rotation of your skull banners... as you can see here you are also wasting a lot of skull banner potential up time for the entire raid by overlapping them! Anything cast 10 seconds before the last warriors cast is a significant raid wide dps loss!

[22:40:59.725] Trogxar casts Skull Banner
[22:41:27.058] Katypärry casts Skull Banner
[22:41:39.788] Pokingyou casts Skull Banner
[22:41:43.551] Chaostheorÿ casts Skull Banner
[22:41:57.950] Coltraine casts Skull Banner
[22:44:17.164] Trogxar casts Skull Banner
[22:46:08.869] Pokingyou casts Skull Banner
[22:46:28.153] Katypärry casts Skull Banner
[22:46:29.718] Coltraine casts Skull Banner
[22:46:32.905] Chaostheorÿ casts Skull Banner
[22:47:19.316] Trogxar casts Skull Banner
[22:49:31.383] Pokingyou casts Skull Banner
[22:49:32.345] Coltraine casts Skull Banner
[22:49:37.417] Chaostheorÿ casts Skull Banner
[22:50:28.933] Trogxar casts Skull Banner

You can see there 3 banners cast that covered a time frame of 16 seconds instead of the 30 seconds of uptime you should have gotten for those 3. That is a HUGE loss for the entire raid. If this is a case of people using a "I win macro" and just using that all the time rather than casting banner alone then they should really swap at least for the next couple of fights as you can't waste that potential raid wide dps! It would be one thing if it was just a personal boost but that is a huge raid wide buff

Hope this helps!

[Odina]

congrats on the kill

[Skillfall]

Thanks :P and yea we were having some issues with overlapping rally/banners, I rally/demo at will basically only really using it at 5 in first phase as a set assignment and I was super tired early into the night and just outright forgetting it for ~ 3 pulls and using it around 10 once my brain kicked in.

Overall a sloppy fire phase but a fairly clean kill nonetheless, I suicided by using an execute instead of a barrier and then just happened to not parry the jailer but definitely saw a big improvement. I went back and counted and overall we only have somewhere around 30 pulls before the kill which I'm perfectly happy with!



Having a go at Siegecrafter tonight, nothing to serious personally I'm set in for the incoming wipes on him but I'm hoping to get the belts worked out and the basic movements etc.... oh joy!

- - - Updated - - -

As you can see there are some rally cry's that you are out right wasting as they are cast at the same time.

I didn't go over all the other CD's but looking at these it looks like you need to fix the cd assignments a tad to better cover it.

If you are looking at improving yout dps you could also set upa rotation of your skull banners... as you can see here you are also wasting a lot of skull banner potential up time for the entire raid by overlapping them! Anything cast 10 seconds before the last warriors cast is a significant raid wide dps loss!

[22:40:59.725] Trogxar casts Skull Banner
[22:41:27.058] Katypärry casts Skull Banner
[22:41:39.788] Pokingyou casts Skull Banner
[22:41:43.551] Chaostheorÿ casts Skull Banner
[22:41:57.950] Coltraine casts Skull Banner
[22:44:17.164] Trogxar casts Skull Banner
[22:46:08.869] Pokingyou casts Skull Banner
[22:46:28.153] Katypärry casts Skull Banner
[22:46:29.718] Coltraine casts Skull Banner
[22:46:32.905] Chaostheorÿ casts Skull Banner
[22:47:19.316] Trogxar casts Skull Banner
[22:49:31.383] Pokingyou casts Skull Banner
[22:49:32.345] Coltraine casts Skull Banner
[22:49:37.417] Chaostheorÿ casts Skull Banner
[22:50:28.933] Trogxar casts Skull Banner

You can see there 3 banners cast that covered a time frame of 16 seconds instead of the 30 seconds of uptime you should have gotten for those 3. That is a HUGE loss for the entire raid. If this is a case of people using a "I win macro" and just using that all the time rather than casting banner alone then they should really swap at least for the next couple of fights as you can't waste that potential raid wide dps! It would be one thing if it was just a personal boost but that is a huge raid wide buff

Hope this helps!

Taking a closer look at this, Colt was just there for the night to fill a missing spot, generally our rotation for skull banners is me > katy > Poking > chaos and I think he was just using it at will. But it's actually something I've been actively trying to improve on, not all of guys in our group are as experienced and tend to think of them as personal cds......

[Katyparry]

We finally kill the damn boss and one of our hunters wins the helm. There is no god.