Demonbolt- Level 100 Warlock Talent WoD

[kornoth]

it's better for us that it behaves like arcane blast, because if it's exponentially, then the fury cost will be too.

[Grubjuice]

When Slam was reintroduced as a talent for Arms warriors, it had a high stacking cap that increased both cost and damage with each stack.... They DEVS later limited this stacking cost and damage modidier to cap out 2-stacks at most.... they justified this revision by saying that the previous cap "was a trap".

well this seems the same... any cast above the Soulfire breaking point is a trap... you'd think that would justify an alteration to the talent similar to what was done to Slam

[Count Zero]

When Slam was reintroduced as a talent for Arms warriors, it had a high stacking cap that increased both cost and damage with each stack.... They DEVS later limited this stacking cost and damage modidier to cap out 2-stacks at most.... they justified this revision by saying that the previous cap "was a trap".

well this seems the same... any cast above the Soulfire breaking point is a trap... you'd think that would justify an alteration to the talent similar to what was done to Slam

They seem really inconsistent on which traps are fine and which aren't :/

[Xorn]

No, they're pretty consistent. If the talent is a warlock talent, traps are ok. If not, no more traps

[Jessicka]

Yeah, it is the cost inflation that prevents it becoming an issue, so yeah a third cast is a trap.

And on inconsistency... https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...51804782747649 About changing Paladin 100 talents because one wasn't offering AoE when all the rest were.

[bio347]

I'm rather sure that one could again say that "different classes are different", because I'm rather sure that's what the devs would say. I'm also rather sure that nobody cares about that, because ZOMG ANOTHER CLASS GOT A THING!

[Jessicka]

I'm rather sure that one could again say that "different classes are different", because I'm rather sure that's what the devs would say. I'm also rather sure that nobody cares about that, because ZOMG ANOTHER CLASS GOT A THING!

Sorry, but I happen to think it's a real issue given Demo's over-reliance on cooldown stacking for AoE as it is. It's yet more railroading into overly niched talents per-encounter, which isn't even an issue for our other specs, nevermind any other class.

[a C e]

does demo bolt's damage increase with stacks ? or its just cost increase ?
and one more thing does the 1 min debuff get reset every time it gains a stack ?


I would rather have it be a spell that gives a buff to our pets, or similar to how kill command is for hunter's :/

Empower Demon 8 sec cd:
- You empower you Felgaurd and command it to strike the enemy for 200% of your spell power and cleave nearby targets for 125%.
- You empower your imp commanding it to cast a Choasbolt dealing 200% spellpower, 3 sec cast time.

I would love to have something like that for all pets it would be fun, it would also bring back more focus onto pet damage............

[Deleted]

- You empower your imp commanding it to cast a Choasbolt dealing 200% spellpower, 3 sec cast time.

That would be awesome to see...

[Jessicka]

I really think this needs to go right back to the drawing board. We're picking here between a 1min ST cooldown and a 1min AE cooldown, that is just what this row boils down to. How did this even get to Beta? If Cataclysm is viable ST, then DB is pointless to waste Tomes on, and if it's not, then Cataclysm is just another Mannoroth's Fury, another AE cooldown to stack.

The lack of direction from MoP development is really showing through for Demonology now, someone, somewhere needs to get a fucking grip on this.

[Soulzar]

Really hoping that Celestalon meant it when he said this version of DemonBolt is unfinished.... because its soooo bad.

What is worse than Cataclysms 1 minute cooldown? Demonbolts PSEUDO cooldown!!

Right now the Glyph Darksoul seems fairly mandatory to line up with these 1min lvl 100 talents, however the glyph conflicts badly with AD and cuts its extra charge duration in half. Passive Servitude is starting to look nicer and nicer ....

[Deleted]

Right now the Glyph Darksoul seems fairly mandatory to line up with these 1min lvl 100 talents, however the glyph conflicts badly with AD and cuts its extra charge duration in half. Passive Servitude is starting to look nicer and nicer ....

100% its going to change. The base cost is twice the intended currently and the +damage/fury modifier for each stack hasn't been implemented.

I'm not sure what the intended interaction between the glyph and AD is to be honest. Taking both seemed to eliminate the 1min CD on both charges but keep the 10 sec duration for me.

[Kashii]

I really think this needs to go right back to the drawing board. We're picking here between a 1min ST cooldown and a 1min AE cooldown, that is just what this row boils down to. How did this even get to Beta? If Cataclysm is viable ST, then DB is pointless to waste Tomes on, and if it's not, then Cataclysm is just another Mannoroth's Fury, another AE cooldown to stack.

The lack of direction from MoP development is really showing through for Demonology now, someone, somewhere needs to get a fucking grip on this.

Would it really be bad if the choice boiled down to a strong ST CD vs a strong AOE CD vs a "I'm Lazy" Talent? Is it really bad to ask min/max players to change talents depending on the specific encounter mechanics?

On a side note - they should just get rid of tomes. It's a pointless annoyance. Just restrict changing in combat and be done with it.

[Jessicka]

Would it really be bad if the choice boiled down to a strong ST CD vs a strong AOE CD vs a "I'm Lazy" Talent? Is it really bad to ask min/max players to change talents depending on the specific encounter mechanics?

On a side note - they should just get rid of tomes. It's a pointless annoyance. Just restrict changing in combat and be done with it.

At that point you're not asking min/max players to make the choice, you're asking everyone to.

[Kashii]

At that point you're not asking min/max players to make the choice, you're asking everyone to.

Ok...well....leave out the part about a specific subset of players - are you saying it's a bad principle to ask players to change talents based on the needs of an encounter? I don't quite understand what you see as the negative here.

[Jessicka]

Ok...well....leave out the part about a specific subset of players - are you saying it's a bad principle to ask players to change talents based on the needs of an encounter? I don't quite understand what you see as the negative here.

In principal, there's no harm in one being optimal for a given encounter; where there is harm is if the talent offers no conceivable benefit and ultimately falls a long way behind as a result - and does so regularly.

I'm not sure why you see a talent on certain encounters being a trap as okay? Many, probably even a majority of players don't change their talents very often if at all; in the current build, those players are going to pick Cataclysm or Servitude because they both always offer something, even when DB might be slightly better, whereas DB will be a trap under most circumstances as there is so frequently a secondary, or AoE targets to hit.

When you consider that for Aff and Dest, both their Chaotic Resources actually have an AoE impact, the choice is again less clear cut and more open to player choice according to playstyle, rather than encounter demands. Ultimately, it just comes down to me thinking players should be allowed to make the choice, not the encounter designers.

[kornoth]

All I see now is that cataclysm does more damage than demonbolt , and apply doom. Both of them are on a 1min cooldown. You can spam Demonbolt and fell into one of the biggest trap of the game, or you can juste go with cataclysm and have a cooldown.
Even with 80 fury and 20% additionnal damage and 100% more fury per stack, I don't see demonbolt being better than cataclysm with this base damage of 200%.
If only they made Demonbolt something you cast in caster form that gives you 500 fury on a 1min cooldown. It will be good for aoe situations ( with 500 fury you can aoe properly) and it can save a burst phase wich occurs just after your cooldowns. We have enough to cast in demonform. They can even use it in demonform , 600% spell damage 300 fury cost and 1min cooldown. With that you can choose if you want the burst damage in meta, or the fury in casterform.

[Jessicka]

I don't feel like it's a trap at all, once Doom crits are spawning Imps and Imp Swarm Glyph is working, I'm pretty sure we'll have more than enough Fury to be throwing out 3 of these at the start of a burn phase if we're really looking for burst/have the procs, or be able to sit on a stack and use it on strong procs like we use Doom right now. It plays okay at the moment, but looking forward to the new build to test properly.

I love the graphic and the feel, so I really want this to work out, I don't want it to be so heavily niched into just a couple of encounters per tier. What I think it needs is each 'stack' to have it's own debuff so it can function like charges, instead of resetting the cooldown on each cast. I'd also like some kind of 'Impending Doom' mechanic that cuts the duration of the debuff on Doom ticks to make this viable on more than just ST encounters; council fights with a priority kill order for example where you have strong Fury generation from multi-dotting but are ostensibly ST nuke fights.

It being Chaos damage worries me too, I was dicking about in Ashran with Cataclysm on a choke point last night, getting Shadowflame Locked was not cool, Chaos Locked would be worse.

[Soulzar]

I'm not sure what the intended interaction between the glyph and AD is to be honest. Taking both seemed to eliminate the 1min CD on both charges but keep the 10 sec duration for me.

It works "correctly" for me too. I get an extra charge of Darksoul... however since the cooldown is 1 minute now, I get and extra charge of 10 seconds, instead of 20 seconds. Cutting AD's overall benefit in half. Not really sure how they would go about fixing this without AD with glyph leaving you at 3 charges of 10s.

[kornoth]

It works "correctly" for me too. I get an extra charge of Darksoul... however since the cooldown is 1 minute now, I get and extra charge of 10 seconds, instead of 20 seconds. Cutting AD's overall benefit in half. Not really sure how they would go about fixing this without AD with glyph leaving you at 3 charges of 10s.

Did you understand his statement?
The glyph and the talent don't work together at the moment, i don't know what you mean by "correctly".
You have 2 charges so Ad is working, Dark soul last 10sec, this part is working, but the cooldown is still 2min instead of 1min, so it's a bug.
When they fix it we will have 2 charges of 10sec dark soul with 1min cooldown, so 1 dark soul every minute and one extra you can use when you want, this combination can be very good if it works.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't feel like it's a trap at all, once Doom crits are spawning Imps and Imp Swarm Glyph is working, I'm pretty sure we'll have more than enough Fury to be throwing out 3 of these at the start of a burn phase if we're really looking for burst/have the procs, or be able to sit on a stack and use it on strong procs like we use Doom right now. It plays okay at the moment, but looking forward to the new build to test properly.

I love the graphic and the feel, so I really want this to work out, I don't want it to be so heavily niched into just a couple of encounters per tier. What I think it needs is each 'stack' to have it's own debuff so it can function like charges, instead of resetting the cooldown on each cast. I'd also like some kind of 'Impending Doom' mechanic that cuts the duration of the debuff on Doom ticks to make this viable on more than just ST encounters; council fights with a priority kill order for example where you have strong Fury generation from multi-dotting but are ostensibly ST nuke fights.

It being Chaos damage worries me too, I was dicking about in Ashran with Cataclysm on a choke point last night, getting Shadowflame Locked was not cool, Chaos Locked would be worse.

Even if doom spawn imps you will never have enough fury to make it worth, cataclysm does 2x more damage than demonbolt and add doom. That's a lot of damage.
( i'm only talking pve so i don't take the chaos school into account). You will at most cast 4 demonbolt buffed, 2sec cast. I prefer 1 cataclsym and 3 or 4 soul fire ( in the 10sec proc window) without the need of adding doom ( because demonbolt+doom = cataclysm cast time , the 2 iteration have a 10sec cast time).
You can already test it on dummy , with cataclysm the burst is far far away, even if they add 20% damage to demonbolt with each charge it will never catch.
And I forget that cataclysm will apply doom without any fury cost when the bug is fixed.
I love the demonbolt animation and I love the idea of having a big damage nuke in demo rotation like soul fire was in the good times, but this iteration of demonbolt is going nowhere.