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  1. #201
    First, from a post a while back, no one pulled 20k DPS even with the 30% buff in ICC. For reference, fights in the next expansion like baleroc normal mode had a DPS requirement of ~20k and ~16k on maloriak normal. Even in BIS ICC, outside of niche fights where your whole raid burned down a boss quickly and ignored everything while being in full BiS, you didn't do more than 15k. And typically with the 30% buff, it did not exceed 11-13k. Dunno, just found that irritating.

    I think the thing you guys are doing is interesting. I remember another guild did this for ICC (?) last year around the end of WOTLK's lifespan. I forgot how far they got but it was not farther than 7 or 8 bosses. But remember this - The gear gap between wrath blues and wrath BiS is much smaller than it was for this expansion. I would recommend you guys just try with the 496's because that DOES seem doable at least for a good bit. With the 471s, I cannot see you getting past norushen even. The healing requirement is going to be pretty steep since you will go to near enrage even if the boss doesn't enrage himself.

    As for what healers pulled back then, in 471 gear, at best you won't be pushing past numbers like 50-70k (with the noru buff ~30% higher). And you cannot sustain that for 7 minutes. And IIRC norushen straight up has a required HPS in the range of ~300-400k, depending on how your raid uses defensives etc. But if you guys 3 heal it, you will probably hit the enrage for sure.

    I dunno, I would just make sure your whole raid has a solid set of 496 itemized gear (not the crappy one stat spirit item etc).

  2. #202
    Dps bashing again?

    Most hunters(Because that's what i play), do around 120-150k dps in Chall modes where your gear is scaled down to 463. (Not bis geared)

  3. #203
    If the tanks don't get obliterated, then it MAY be possible. Good luck to you and your guild.

    OT: No, not till the heroic mode walls.
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  4. #204
    Fighting attrition from boredom is the hardest part.

  5. #205
    Not everyone is "bashing you". They are voicing their opinion on why they think it may or may not be possible in 471 gear. Or where they think you will simply get stuck.

    Even if not in BiS, just being in random non-bis SoO / ToT gear / DMF trinket / etc, it is easy to pull those numbers for cmode now. But you are talking strictly heroic dungeon gear + scenario cache gear which is pretty much the polar opposite of BiS for cmodes (with maybe 1 or 2 pieces max for most classes gotten from 463s) as you can be. Pulling 120-150k on a single target fight that lasts 7 minutes as opposed to cmode fights which end in 40 seconds are two completely different things.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Artemol View Post
    Dps bashing again?

    Most hunters(Because that's what i play), do around 120-150k dps in Chall modes where your gear is scaled down to 463. (Not bis geared)
    Severly doubting you can do 120k-150k sustained dps singletarget in 463 gear.

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  7. #207
    Mechagnome NickCageFanatic's Avatar
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    SoO will be really effin hard to do with 471 ilevel, I imagine you will be using your timeless gear more than you think. The reason I say this is because some classes perform horribly at 471 ilevel just based off seeing what people do during Challenge Modes (463 ilevel). The best classes will manage roughly 200k Burst AoE dps, and that's about as high as anyone will pull using nothing but 471 gear. Single target dps will be a shit show for all melee classes.

    Normal mode shouldn't be too bad though. I honestly believe normal mode is the extent to which this test can work. 14/14 Heroic in 471 gear is not possible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemol View Post
    Dps bashing again?

    Most hunters(Because that's what i play), do around 120-150k dps in Chall modes where your gear is scaled down to 463. (Not bis geared)
    On AoE yes many classes can hit 120-150k on their AoE using all CDs and Hero/Lust. You're lying if you say you can pull that whenever you want on any boss.
    In SSB the final boss (requiring very little movement if you are initially positioned correctly) popping everything the most I've seen bursting is 150k which gradually goes down to roughly 80k-90k (keep in mind that is over the course of 60-90 seconds). Dps would drop much more if the fight went on for another 3:30-4:00 minutes (I estimate 60-70k).

    If you have 3-4 other dps with you that burst 100k+ with you then yes you're dps will be higher (probably 100k+) because the fight was over quicker, but you cannot pull 120k-150k just because you felt like it. Certain CDs and player skills need to match up in the group for you to do that.

    The 2nd way to gimp the system (recount or skada) is to make a nice AoE pull to pad your numbers and pull the boss instantly w/o dropping combat that way all the damage you did from the trash gets carried over into the boss fight. That's how you see people running WR times pulling 200k+ on boss fights. They just don't drop combat from the trash packs, but they aren't really pulling 200k in 463 gear.

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    Last edited by NickCageFanatic; 2014-06-02 at 06:02 PM.

  8. #208
    Like I said earlier and it's worth repeating, anyone who thinks they will even get close to 14/14 Normal with <496 ilvl is delusional and has no understanding of game mechanics.

  9. #209
    Mechagnome NickCageFanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GwiGwi View Post
    Like I said earlier and it's worth repeating, anyone who thinks they will even get close to 14/14 Normal with <496 ilvl is delusional and has no understanding of game mechanics.
    Honestly I think it's possible, normal mode raids are always designed such that the normal gear from the previous tier is adequate to complete the normal mode of the current content instance. There are certain rare boss exceptions (ie. Horridon back in ToT was way overtuned) but for the most part if you are unable to complete SoO in 522-540 gear consisting of a legendary gem and cloak you have L2P issues not gear issues.

  10. #210
    Dreadlord beardedcandy's Avatar
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    why not just slowly take pieces of gear off and clear your heroic SoO. start with a full raid without necks. then rings. then bracers. keep going till you hit a wall.

    it's funny what people do when there's nothing to do in game

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Alocin View Post
    Honestly I think it's possible, normal mode raids are always designed such that the normal gear from the previous tier is adequate to complete the normal mode of the current content instance. There are certain rare boss exceptions (ie. Horridon back in ToT was way overtuned) but for the most part if you are unable to complete SoO in 522-540 gear consisting of a legendary gem and cloak you have L2P issues not gear issues.
    522 is a totally different league from 496. It is another tier difference which is huge huge huge

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Alocin View Post
    Honestly I think it's possible, normal mode raids are always designed such that the normal gear from the previous tier is adequate to complete the normal mode of the current content instance. There are certain rare boss exceptions (ie. Horridon back in ToT was way overtuned) but for the most part if you are unable to complete SoO in 522-540 gear consisting of a legendary gem and cloak you have L2P issues not gear issues.
    Notice how I said <496 and not 522-540. They will not be able to get anywhere close to Garrosh with their current gear goals.

  13. #213
    I don't know why people are even thinking about 14/14. Tanks will be shredded to pieces by first boss in 10 sec. Would love to see how fast healers go oom trying to heal someone geared 50+ ilvl lower than minimum.

    496 might get you couple of bosses but 471 absolutely no way
    Last edited by PrairieChicken; 2014-06-02 at 06:27 PM.

  14. #214
    Moderator Wilderness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemol View Post
    Dps bashing again?

    Most hunters(Because that's what i play), do around 120-150k dps in Chall modes where your gear is scaled down to 463. (Not bis geared)
    150k sustained single-target dps? Not a chance.

    Its great that you want to challenge yourself and see what can do with that gear, but even 100% perfect play can only get so much out of that gear, and its not going to be enough for normal SoO at all. I'd be surprised if you managed to kill a boss with your timeless sets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alocin View Post
    Honestly I think it's possible, normal mode raids are always designed such that the normal gear from the previous tier is adequate to complete the normal mode of the current content instance. There are certain rare boss exceptions (ie. Horridon back in ToT was way overtuned) but for the most part if you are unable to complete SoO in 522-540 gear consisting of a legendary gem and cloak you have L2P issues not gear issues.
    496 isn't the previous normal mode gear though; 522 with legendary gem/cloak is a far cry from even the timeless isle set. What they are going to attempt is very different, and I don't believe its doable at all - maybe they can get a boss or two down in 496 but I'd be very surprised.
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  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    Have fun with Malkorok and Thokk. The lack of DPS for Malkorok and lack of health for Thokk.
    Implying they'll even make it to malk

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemol View Post
    Dps bashing again?

    Most hunters(Because that's what i play), do around 120-150k dps in Chall modes where your gear is scaled down to 463. (Not bis geared)
    Not sustained single target they don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alocin View Post
    Honestly I think it's possible, normal mode raids are always designed such that the normal gear from the previous tier is adequate to complete the normal mode of the current content instance. There are certain rare boss exceptions (ie. Horridon back in ToT was way overtuned) but for the most part if you are unable to complete SoO in 522-540 gear consisting of a legendary gem and cloak you have L2P issues not gear issues.
    25m normal norushen has 1.1B hp and a 7 minute enrage. Assuming 2 tanks, 5 heals (if heals can even keep their mana up for 7 minutes at that ilvl) and 18 dps and a required raid dps of ~2.6M you need everyone to be pulling 120k+ single target sustained over 7 minutes just to meet the enrage.

    I don't get how anyone could think a group of 471 people can do that. Even if you ignore the dps requirement, the healing requirement is going to be absurd.
    Last edited by britishbubba; 2014-06-02 at 07:04 PM.

  16. #216
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by britishbubba View Post
    Implying they'll even make it to malk



    Not sustained single target they don't.
    Whilst I'm signed and looking forward to trying this, you've got to remember BIS CM gear while scaled to 463 is still nothing like 463 gear. My Monk has 25 sockets in CM gear, I'm looking at about 10 sockets in 471 gear. That's about 4500 less secondary stats TO BEGIN WITH.

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  17. #217
    Dreadlord beardedcandy's Avatar
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    yeah I really think this is unlikely. just consider how slow heroics can be with poorly geared people.

    classic example of taking things for granted. people are really good at doing this.

  18. #218
    don't think you will succeed very far. but interesting concept. good luck anyways
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  19. #219
    Sorry to burst people's bubble, it's not possible in 471 gear. DPS/HPS checks are in no way possible to reach. Even in Full BiS CHallenge Mode gear and playing in Method you won't get past Malkorok, without abusing Vengeance with using 5 tanks or anything which abuses Vengeance in some way.
    Better do Throne of Thunder OR do Siege Flex/LFR in 471 or Timeless Isle gear.
    Spare people the shame and time to even try.. Better use your time to go outside (the weather is nice summertime is inc !) and work out or something.
    If you succeed to kill Garrosh on NORMAL mode in 10 man, I'm personally transferring my guildbank to Kazzak and give you 1 million gold and a Swift Spectral Tiger mount. You've seen it here, and MMO champ is my evidence.

  20. #220
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aevyn View Post
    Snip
    If you succeed to kill Garrosh on NORMAL mode in 10 man, I'm personally transferring my guildbank to Kazzak and give you 1 million gold and a Swift Spectral Tiger mount. You've seen it here, and MMO champ is my evidence.
    But I'm not on Kazzak :'(

    Vexxe of Old School.



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