Is there legitimate math to prove which DK spec performs better?

[Azrogol]

"No it's just a false hood. Unholy's low point is generally lower and it even loses on the high point in the majority of the fights despite it all. This is using the same gear that they would as 2 handed Frost. Frost tends to win. Also note that Unholy only does decent in 25 man heroic compared where the fights are longer so they can make more use of their CD's. In 10 man heroic when it's shorter it tends to under perform because of fight length and up time of adds for disease tics. It's just a general falsehood to claim things like that.It's not a defensive or anything like that it's just having to dispel an inaccurate claim in particular the fight design. Especially since in some of the fights the padding unholy uses to compete with frost is padding and not truly crucial to the fight. Also fights where it can be further from the boss to allow diseases to tic while they're not even in range of them like Juggernaut heroic or Thok as an example. But on a single footing patchwerk alone it falls to frost fairly fast. But this is all from a practical killing for progression point of view. Not a "Oh look I just ranked as DW Frost geming crit and using skeer's sort of thing" that some logs can show.Also on logs. The Frost can have a larger variance of dps between it's high and it's low but you have to note that Frost encompasses both DW and 2 handed. So the lower point of Frost can very well be a lot of the 2 handed Frost DK's compared to Dual Wield. But then what does it say about Unholy if Frost's low point is still ahead of Unholy meaning that 2 handed Frost is potentially even beating unholy in logs." From Tor on the WoW forums. The WoW forum community believes Frost is best, here it's Unholy. I'm not sure if it's actual math or spec favoritism. Is there any solid math?

[Maxweii]

Predominately if you do follow DK's and the information from various places that do the theorycrafting and other such things for us, you know that Unholy has pulled ahead of Frost since the buffs we received months ago. It seems that most people whom post here stay on top of info more so then the average poster on the WoW forums, so that's why we seem so inclined to know Unholy is in fact ahead of Frost.

Really it just seems that unless you want to stay on top of changes for your class, most people will just look at the start of the patch after all the huge changes happen and take what is best for their class as never changing. Since Unholy ended up being buffed ahead of Frost so late in the patch, most people surprisingly are ignorant to the difference in damage they can do. While the gap between them at maximum dps they can do is very small, Unholy has been showing it's far better off then Frost since the moment the DK buffs went out.

Even in spec score/overall dps in 10H Unholy beats Frost (all be it the representation of Unholy in 10H is low for whatever reason, so it has to be manually added to the list of specs shown.
Overall DPS:
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...10100000000000
Spec Score:
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_...10100000000000

[Shiira]

The wow forums can say whatever they want, the evidence is in favour of unholy being ahead on the majority of encounters despite having significantly fewer parses.

[zoomgpally]

Even in spec score/overall dps in 10H Unholy beats Frost (all be it the representation of Unholy in 10H is low for whatever reason, so it has to be manually added to the list of specs shown.
Overall DPS:
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...10100000000000
Spec Score:
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_...10100000000000

Because something that sees dualwield frost and 2h frost as a single spec has to be accurate.

[Deleted]

The wow forums can say whatever they want, the evidence is in favour of unholy being ahead on the majority of encounters despite having significantly fewer parses.

This is pretty much sums up what you need to know.

[Daveon]

Because the specs are so close now, the spec that YOU play better is the spec that will perform better for YOU.

You can look at theorycrafting all you want, but if you can't execute the rotation nearly perfectly and adjust to the circumstances of each individual encounter for the particular spec you're playing, it doesn't really matter which spec is theoretically better. Everyone assumes they can perform as perfectly as a sim, but the vast majority of people cannot. Play both (well really choice of 3 really since frost has 2 different play styles), see which you do better at, pick that one.

[Schizoide]

Courtesy of Magdalena (who prefers commenting on threads on twitter rather than posting in them) Warcraftlogs now supports real rankings. It's much more accurate than WoL/raidbots as it's actually supported and properly classifies all heroic encounters in SoO.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/5

I suggest sorting by median spec score, the default is average spec score. Also, be sure to mentally exclude underrepresented specs like marks, WL doesn't do that yet.

There is no real way to sort by DW or 2H frost without looking at ability usage which I image would be much more computationall intensive. Not that it matters, obviously, but it would be neat.

[Saiyendra]

Why is Frost ahead on the top 100/top 5% of parses, though? More samples?

[Schizoide]

That is an excellent question. Not sure what the parentheses mean after the parse numbers at higher percentiles.

[Challenge]

Padding more often than not.

[Nixonbestdk]

Honestly, why does it even matter to you?

This current raid tier is practically said and done, and anyone with half a brain who has played their tier is already 14/14 Heroic. So why even bother trying to optimize your DPS (as in squeezing out every possible bit), etc.?

Obviously, the unholy might buff did wonders for unholy's preformance in all regards, and obviously unholy should rank superior in certain fights, especially ones on 25 man.

Frost is such a boring spec anyway. Killing Machine is literally the worst thing going for the frost spec. The spec is actually so RNG dependent it's not even funny.

But who cares anyway?

For reasons that should be inevitable, Frost will be on top again as soon as the first tier of WoD hits... which really should be the only to be looking forward to, since MoP is practically over if you think about it.

Play what's consistent and fun. If different sources are holding contradicting viewpoints for which spec preforms better, then the difference is probably neglible.

I don't really want to say anymore.

You should just try using your brain, though; it can go a long way, mate.

[Skarssen]

Because something that sees dualwield frost and 2h frost as a single spec has to be accurate.

There might be a handful of 2h parses in the top 10%, but I'd be really surprised if its more than a handful. For all intents and purposes 2h frost has no bearing on the overall frost parsing. If you use all parses or top 50% percentile I'm sure a significant portion of them will be 2h, but most people who care about ranking will play whatever is best for ranking and that definitely is NOT 2h frost.

[Vereesa]

This current raid tier is practically said and done, and anyone with half a brain who has played their tier is already 14/14 Heroic. So why even bother trying to optimize your DPS (as in squeezing out every possible bit), etc.?

Because some people, raiders especially, are competitive in nature and like to continue to compete in some way even after progression is over?

[Nixonbestdk]

Because some people, raiders especially, are competitive in nature and like to continue to compete in some way even after progression is over?

Umm.

Do you perhaps have some massive mental incapability?

How can you be "competitive" after progression is over if you're a random no namer swine and you'll never compete in a live tourney, etc.

For example, if he was perhaps a member of a top-tier guild full of actual competent players as well as human beings (people of which you clearly no little about since you don't come across as too bright and people of your caliber generally tend to stick together) then I would gladly respect his desire to optimize his play to the absolute peak.

However, by the looks of it, no one in this thread is going anywhere.

And with that being said, all there is to look forward to is next tier.

All I'm essentially getting at is this whole "which spec DK spec reigns superior debate" is almost undeniably completely irrelevant and a blatant waste of time.

Then looking forward to the beginning of next tier, frost will inevitably be much more effective and efficient.

So it's, like, why do these threads even exist?

They're awkward and they take the Death Knight class in no clear direction, a blatant waste of time mind you.

[Challenge]

anyone with half a brain who has played their tier is already 14/14 Heroic. So why even bother trying to optimize your DPS (as in squeezing out every possible bit), etc.

Hey welcome to mmo. I see you are off to a fantastic start. Judging by your 5 post already, and your name, is this the part where we all stop taking you seriously and ignore everything you say?

[Shiira]

That's a pretty bold statement from a new poster.

So who are you again?

If you'd ever done any real raiding in a real guild you'd know that people compete for ranks after progress is done.

There are decent raiders who post on this forum, being too new to know who they are is your own problem.

[Nixonbestdk]

Hey welcome to mmo. I see you are off to a fantastic start. Judging by your 5 post already, and your name, is the the part where we all stop taking you seriously and ignore everything you say?

You're completely irrelevant.

And you can only speak for yourself.

As far as I'm concerned, no one really knows who you are and you're awful.

[Challenge]

Good thing no one cares what you are concerned with or I might be in trouble.

[Nixonbestdk]

That's a pretty bold statement from a new poster.

So who are you again?

If you'd ever done any real raiding in a real guild you'd know that people compete for ranks after progress is done.

There are decent raiders who post on this forum, being too new to know who they are is your own problem.

can't link stuff

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[Skarssen]

Umm.

Do you perhaps have some massive mental incapability?

How can you be "competitive" after progression is over if you're a random no namer swine and you'll never compete in a live tourney, etc.

For example, if he was perhaps a member of a top-tier guild full of actual competent players as well as human beings (people of which you clearly no little about since you don't come across as too bright and people of your caliber generally tend to stick together) then I would gladly respect his desire to optimize his play to the absolute peak.

However, by the looks of it, no one in this thread is going anywhere.

And with that being said, all there is to look forward to is next tier.

All I'm essentially getting at is this whole "which spec DK spec reigns superior debate" is almost undeniably completely irrelevant and a blatant waste of time.

Then looking forward to the beginning of next tier, frost will inevitably be much more effective and efficient.

So it's, like, why do these threads even exist?

They're awkward and they take the Death Knight class in no clear direction, a blatant waste of time mind you.

Way to get your childish nonsense out in the open right away so we can safely dismiss anything you have to say from this point on.