afflic vs destro

[Kapelusz]

(and Protectors of the Endless)

All things on protectors count towards useful damage.

[klogaroth]

All things on protectors count towards useful damage.

Sha Corruption – Killing a member of the Protectors causes Sha Corruption to explode from their bodies and possess the remaining Protectors. Sha Corruption heals each Protector to their maximum health, increases their damage done by 25%, and grants them additional abilities.

Oh really.

Putting a full set of dots on all 3 protectors is useful damage.

Right.

(think you maybe got confused with The Fallen Protectors. Protectors of the Endless were the ones in Terrace of the Endless Springs)

[Glurp]

-snip-

Wow that's a lot of words considering everything you said was completely made up meaningless bullshit based on theoretical situations which only exist in your imaginary world.

Affliction is all about overall damage.
Destro is about priority damage.

If you need the priority damage you'll probably want to play destro.
If you need overall damage (and have good trinkets) you'll probably want to play affliction.

Both specs have abilities which can focus single target damage (Chaos Bolt and Haunt).

The way that destro's damage is delivered means that if the 2 specs were exactly even overall damage then destro would be the far, far more attractive option. It's a lot easier to suddenly redirect damage as destro especially if, for whatever reason, you aren't going to have access to a 10 stack agony.

Where did you get this information from? How is it easier to re-direct damage as Destro? You completely re-direct your damage as affliction on a new target by Soul Swapping your DoTs to the new target then using your single target rotation on that, the fact that your old DoTs are still ticking doesn't have anything to do with the amount of damage you're putting into the new target. Before you try to mention it, Soul Swap extensions are a completely different topic and has nothing to do with the target swapping ability of a spec.

Also what are you trying to say by "if you aren't going to have a 10 stack agony"? Are you trying to say that Destro is better than Affliction if you don't play Affliction properly? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

It's the fact that affliction (dot specs in general actually) tends to be really good at overall damage on multiple targets, especially whilst ignoring a priority add in favour of spreading dots some more, that's earned it a reputation as a padding spec.

Soul Swap extentions and extreme levels of DoT snapshotting is what makes Affliction so good for multi-target at this point in the expansion, the fact that it is a DoT class means nothing. Survival Hunter is a DoT class but it's complete dogshit on cleave fights. Once again, Haunt means that Affliction is able to prioritize damage while multi-dotting when required.

Plus dotting up targets that don't need any damage on them whatsoever. I'm looking at you Paragons of the Klaxxi. (and Protectors of the Endless)

Completely irrelevant to the discussion and I don't actually know what you're trying to say here, the fact that the spec is good at padding (because of a flawed mechanic) doesn't mean anything about it's ability to do single target damage. Also did you know that Affliction has one of the highest single target burst DPS in the game which is much higher than Destro?

Sha Corruption – Killing a member of the Protectors causes Sha Corruption to explode from their bodies and possess the remaining Protectors. Sha Corruption heals each Protector to their maximum health, increases their damage done by 25%, and grants them additional abilities.

Oh really.

Putting a full set of dots on all 3 protectors is useful damage.

Right.

A 2 year old with downs could have figured out that the guy you replied to was thinking of Protectors in SoO, since you know, T14 isn't actually relevant to this topic at all. Also maybe I'm not remembering things correctly but in T14 and T15 didn't extra corruptions give a retarded amount of Soul Shards back which meant keeping DoTs on all 3 targets for Protectors was a single target increase?



In terms of the actual topic. Affliction pushes way above Destro on single target fights when you push fast kills. If you're not getting fast kills then it's going to be a different story and whatever spec is better likely depends on your exact kill time and how good you are at playing either spec.

[Kapelusz]

Sha Corruption – Killing a member of the Protectors causes Sha Corruption to explode from their bodies and possess the remaining Protectors. Sha Corruption heals each Protector to their maximum health, increases their damage done by 25%, and grants them additional abilities.

Oh really.

Putting a full set of dots on all 3 protectors is useful damage.

Right.

Read that wrong, thought you meant the protectors in siege. Names are too close.

[klogaroth]

Wow that's a lot of words considering everything you said was completely made up meaningless bullshit based on theoretical situations which only exist in your imaginary world.




Where did you get this information from? How is it easier to re-direct damage as Destro? You completely re-direct your damage as affliction on a new target by Soul Swapping your DoTs to the new target then using your single target rotation on that, the fact that your old DoTs are still ticking doesn't have anything to do with the amount of damage you're putting into the new target. Before you try to mention it, Soul Swap extensions are a completely different topic and has nothing to do with the target swapping ability of a spec.


Soul Swap extentions and extreme levels of DoT snapshotting is what makes Affliction so good for multi-target at this point in the expansion, the fact that it is a DoT class means nothing. Survival Hunter is a DoT class but it's complete dogshit on cleave fights. Once again, Haunt means that Affliction is able to prioritize damage while multi-dotting when required.


Completely irrelevant to the discussion and I don't actually know what you're trying to say here, the fact that the spec is good at padding (because of a flawed mechanic) doesn't mean anything about it's ability to do single target damage. Also did you know that Affliction has one of the highest single target burst DPS in the game which is much higher than Destro?

1 - The damage that you do as destro is far more focused around the windows in which you are using chaos bolt. If affliction was the spec of choice for snap target switches then everyone would have gone destro for Ra-den. They didn't. Because it's not.

2 - It's a long standing thing in the game for dot classes to dot everything in sight, regardless of what they are MEANT to be doing. On progress people tend to be more disciplined, but farm lasts a lot longer. It's during farm that you see more of this behaviour and it sticks in peoples' minds. The comparison to survival is rather irrelevant. The reason for this is that you will still see people spreading serpent sting if it improves overall damage. Whether it's useful or not. The survival doesn't have as big a reputation for this is BECAUSE it's dogshit on cleave fights. Obviously when you look at it and see that someone has used multi-shot on all the parasites on Klaxxi it's plain to see, but it won't earn you the same reputation as a padding spec as an aff lock putting dots on all 3 bosses.

3 - Burst on the pull does not equal single target burst because if someone says that a fight demands "single target burst" they aren't talking about how quickly you can get the boss down to 75%. Again - if affliction single target burst was so good it would have been the most popular spec for Ra-den.

There is no doubt that affliction is a good spec, what I'm trying to say is that because of the way it delivers damage there is always going to be a lot of opportunity for it to earn a reputation as a padding spec. It's a spec that stands to gain a lot of overall damage from spreading dots when it really doesn't matter or isn't what the fight really calls for at that moment.

On progress people won't be doing that. But it's not on progress that the reputation for a spec being a padding spec is earned.

[Glurp]

1 - The damage that you do as destro is far more focused around the windows in which you are using chaos bolt. If affliction was the spec of choice for snap target switches then everyone would have gone destro for Ra-den. They didn't. Because it's not.

Target swapping =/= Bursting low health adds

2 - It's a long standing thing in the game for dot classes to dot everything in sight, regardless of what they are MEANT to be doing. On progress people tend to be more disciplined, but farm lasts a lot longer. It's during farm that you see more of this behaviour and it sticks in peoples' minds. The comparison to survival is rather irrelevant. The reason for this is that you will still see people spreading serpent sting if it improves overall damage. Whether it's useful or not. The survival doesn't have as big a reputation for this is BECAUSE it's dogshit on cleave fights. Obviously when you look at it and see that someone has used multi-shot on all the parasites on Klaxxi it's plain to see, but it won't earn you the same reputation as a padding spec as an aff lock putting dots on all 3 bosses.

Once again, we're talking about Afflictions ability to do single target, how it performs in multi-dotting is 100% irrelevant.

3 - Burst on the pull does not equal single target burst because if someone says that a fight demands "single target burst" they aren't talking about how quickly you can get the boss down to 75%. Again - if affliction single target burst was so good it would have been the most popular spec for Ra-den.

You repeated your first statement with different wording. Single target burst =/= Bursting low health adds

There is no doubt that affliction is a good spec, what I'm trying to say is that because of the way it delivers damage there is always going to be a lot of opportunity for it to earn a reputation as a padding spec. It's a spec that stands to gain a lot of overall damage from spreading dots when it really doesn't matter or isn't what the fight really calls for at that moment.

On progress people won't be doing that. But it's not on progress that the reputation for a spec being a padding spec is earned.

Cool story bro, still completely irrelevant to what this entire topic is about.

[klogaroth]

I deliberately didn't say target swapping.

Perhaps that wasn't enough detail though on where I am saying destro is good. You clearly are aware of that though.

I was responding to people saying that affliction had a reputation as a padding spec. It's clearly a deserved reputation because of the amount that you standing to gain in overall damage by padding and cheesing. Few other specs in the game can match that level of gain from padding.

[Zevoa]

Thanks I fell out of my chair laughing.

lol. 10chars

[striderZA]

Don't completely agree that affliction can't provide direct damage on demand. Saving up a DS/zerking for Xaril (together with bloodlust) can yield excellent results as affliction.

However, last week on paragons I was able to do some excellent damage on Xaril as destruction by saving up DS and getting lucky with a black blood proc.

- - - Updated - - -

Because dots keep ticking when the raid runs out of range to cheese siege mode.

people still do that?

[mitbrandir]

If Affliction is all padding, then why does Affliction do better DPS than Destro on Iron Juggernaut?

High burst + Short fight = High dps

[Jellospally]

1 - The damage that you do as destro is far more focused around the windows in which you are using chaos bolt. If affliction was the spec of choice for snap target switches then everyone would have gone destro for Ra-den. They didn't. Because it's not.

Because only a couple people know the soulswap trick on progression in T15. Having opener dots all fight was GG if you knew how to do it and easily raped orbs almost on your own.

I was using that since progression on him and for the rest of the tier till they gave us current soulswap UVLS made it fuckin broken op.

[klogaroth]

Because only a couple people know the soulswap trick on progression in T15. Having opener dots all fight was GG if you knew how to do it and easily raped orbs almost on your own.

I was using that since progression on him and for the rest of the tier till they gave us current soulswap UVLS made it fuckin broken op.

I thought it was 5.4 that brought in the carrying over snapshots design again?

From the 5.4 notes:
Soul Swap no longer does any damage, and now copies damage-over-time effects instead of just moving them without needing a glyph. Copied effects now once again preserve their power and duration. Duration has been reduced to 3 seconds (down from 20 seconds).

Or did it secretly do it, but not really tell you prior to that? I played mostly demo all of t15 so wouldn't have noticed.

[Kapelusz]

I thought it was 5.4 that brought in the carrying over snapshots design again?

From the 5.4 notes:
Soul Swap no longer does any damage, and now copies damage-over-time effects instead of just moving them without needing a glyph. Copied effects now once again preserve their power and duration. Duration has been reduced to 3 seconds (down from 20 seconds).

Or did it secretly do it, but not really tell you prior to that? I played mostly demo all of t15 so wouldn't have noticed.

What it did pre 5.4 was removed the dots from your target and you could put them on something else, and when you did this it would snapshot the stats and reset its duration. This made you have 100% crit dots as long as you had anything to soul swap to. It got hot fixed at somepoint to only snap shot haste on ua and corruption, so it wasn't used anymore for the most part.

[klogaroth]

Ah cool, didn't see many using the unglyphed version, especially to do that.

[Deleted]

Both specs are viable on any encounter in SoO.
But with a set tactic fit for affli (always at least 1 opened box on spoils, half of the raid slacking on the adds on galakras, not separating the shamans, trinket icd playing on norushen) affli will go way ahead of destro. Even on Garrosh affli gives way better boss damage than destro (in our current gear, 2 destro + 2 fury is enough to annihilate the adds in seconds, whilst the rest just penetrate garrosh all the way)
In a pug, new raid or on progression you would be better off with destro for nearly every fight.

[klogaroth]

Both specs are viable on any encounter in SoO.
But with a set tactic fit for affli (always at least 1 opened box on spoils, half of the raid slacking on the adds on galakras, not separating the shamans, trinket icd playing on norushen) affli will go way ahead of destro. Even on Garrosh affli gives way better boss damage than destro (in our current gear, 2 destro + 2 fury is enough to annihilate the adds in seconds, whilst the rest just penetrate garrosh all the way)
In a pug, new raid or on progression you would be better off with destro for nearly every fight.

Destro does require a bit of gaming to do as well as possible too. Ideally you want to be able to get the most out of shadowburn, in particular havoc'd shadowburn. A raid stacked with destro locks generally produces too much competition for shadowburns and not everyone can generate as many resources as they would otherwise have been able to.

[Deleted]

A raid stacked with destro locks generally produces too much competition for shadowburns and not everyone can generate as many resources as they would otherwise have been able to.

shit latency + 4 other locks + progression garrosh = tears after 0 SB on the first phase...