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  1. #1

    Escapes in (world) PvP

    This has been bothering me a lot lately since I've been doing dailies on isle of thunder and the amount of times I met players of opposing faction, nearly killed them and then had them slip away because of some bullshit mechanic is really annoying.

    The worst offender is rogue with tard-friendly vanishes, cloak of shadows, blind -> restealth and spammable burst of speed making them slippery as hell. I understand some impish appeal of the class is slipping in and out of combat but this is ridiculous.

    Next on the list is mage. Iceblock -> greater invisibility. Why is that a thing -.- And even if not, pom -> poly -> run away.

    Third offenders are hunters who can web -> trap -> cc you for eternity while they run with their own ten dozen sprints and pet stuns. Bonus points for deterrence -> black hole (engineering thing w/e it's called).

    Druids aren't on the list. They are above, beyond and between the numbers as they are the zen of annoying escapism. Between blink and 50+% health heal (neither of which you can silence) they also got root / cyclone / solar beam / ursol's vortex / dash / practical immunity to slows in addition to being able to be a healer AND a dps at the same time. Were they mental when they designed it?

    Really, most if not all classes have some bullsh*t way to just reset combat and run away like little chicken sh*ts that they are. I hate it and I hope Blizzard really take a look at it in WoD in addition to the amount of cc. I really hope they do something cause I'd really hate for Ashran to be an annoying chickenfest.
    Last edited by Saberstrike; 2014-06-06 at 09:10 AM.

  2. #2
    We should delete all classes then give the one remaining class all the abilities of all the classes that way its balanced. You imbecile the classes need to all vary! Its what makes a class unique. And the game interesting!
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  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans Lemposs's Avatar
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    So people should not have the ability to escape combat if they don't want to fight? You know there is this thing called arenas or BG where running away isn't a choice, go there if you want your non-escapable enemies.
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  4. #4
    I am Murloc! Baracuda's Avatar
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    Really hard to give advice if you don't say what class you play. Only hard class to catch is rogue if you can't bleed, imo.
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  5. #5
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    What class are you playing?
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemposs View Post
    So people should not have the ability to escape combat if they don't want to fight? You know there is this thing called arenas or BG where running away isn't a choice, go there if you want your non-escapable enemies.
    Dont be so mean, do you think this guy will enjoy druids running round pillars?

  7. #7
    The only escape that bothers me is Vanish.

    Vanish is just retarded. Absolutely 100% stupid retarded. There is nothing you can do to prevent it or break it or anything. You can have 15 people trying to catch the rogue, he can still just LOLvanish.

    Vanish seriously needs to be reworked to be broken much easier by DoTs and AoE.
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  8. #8
    Moderator Blithe's Avatar
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    I agree things like spamming Burst of Speed as a Rogue, or spam-shifting to get out roots and snares as a Druid are completely imbecilic and shouldn't be in the game at all, but some of the other things you mentioned are okay. Nothing justifies complete immunity to movement impairing effects, though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    The only escape that bothers me is Vanish.

    Vanish is just retarded. Absolutely 100% stupid retarded. There is nothing you can do to prevent it or break it or anything. You can have 15 people trying to catch the rogue, he can still just LOLvanish.

    Vanish seriously needs to be reworked to be broken much easier by DoTs and AoE.
    Vanish is fine.
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  9. #9
    OP's post reminds me so much of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaDuyIqGhpE

    But yeah, Vanish can be annoying to the enemy but it's our tool just like a paladin's bubble or a shaman's thunderstorm or a warlocks immune bubble.
    You must become a Master Baiter if you want to want to master the One-eyed Fish of the Dark Caverns!

  10. #10
    Banned Taftvalue's Avatar
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    vanish is a joke atm, because of subtferuge, it's gonna be fine in wod since they're gonna nerf subterfuge

  11. #11
    People still whine about vanish? The only advantage rogues have going for them over other classes is their escape ability.

  12. #12
    Also at that, druids can instant 100k heals, paladins with sprint, free stun, priests vanishing and death knight and monk tanks reaching 800k+ hp but OH ROGUES NERF THEM. No wonder the class is dying.
    You must become a Master Baiter if you want to want to master the One-eyed Fish of the Dark Caverns!

  13. #13
    What class are you playing?
    The last straw was when I geared my warlock. Before I also tried helping friends with d-bags that kill questgivers using warrior/dk -- that just didn't work.

    I also had a hunter alt whom I consider the best world pvp chaser at the moment due to flare and all damage being ranged / on the move. But hunters in MoP are also inexcusably overpowered.

    People still whine about vanish? The only advantage rogues have going for them over other classes is their escape ability.
    and that's somehow not bad design?

    a paladin's bubble or a shaman's thunderstorm or a warlocks immune bubble.
    None of those three abilities need to exist. The only iconic one is paladin bubble and I feel like while it adds flavor it's also the reason the class can never be truly balanced.

    So people should not have the ability to escape combat if they don't want to fight? You know there is this thing called arenas or BG where running away isn't a choice, go there if you want your non-escapable enemies.
    As someone already mentioned, there's a reason every RBG demands a druid flag carrier. It can be chased by 15 people and give them the finger because the class is just broken.

    In arenas rogues can run around pillars all day and spam their openers / bleeds until your health just runs out, if the rogue is good there's literally nothing you can do even with the stealth-reveal gems.

    It's not that they don't want to fight either. They fight back, then they realize they're dying and just poof at 30% hp or w/e. If they don't want to fight they can just not dismount, or in case of rogues not try and fail to kill me 7 times with endless vanish to get outta jail free every time.
    Last edited by Saberstrike; 2014-06-07 at 03:30 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    The only escape that bothers me is Vanish.

    Vanish is just retarded. Absolutely 100% stupid retarded. There is nothing you can do to prevent it or break it or anything. You can have 15 people trying to catch the rogue, he can still just LOLvanish.

    Vanish seriously needs to be reworked to be broken much easier by DoTs and AoE.
    Vanish is fine. Its subterfuge that makes it ridiculous. Vanish with dots -> dots break vanish 3 seconds later -> remain stealth for 3 more seconds (subterfuge) -> out of combat so restealth -> stealth breaks from dots but you still remain stealth for 3 seconds (subterfuge). This entire time if they really wanted to escape they would be 200 yards away with burst of speed by the time they are really out. Subterfuge allows you to get restealths and opens even with dots up as long as you are semi-quick about it.

    @OP: You complain about warlock and people escaping from you. Assuming you play destro (afflic is not quite as ridiculous in world pvp), you really can't complain about people running from you. Destro can literally kill people before they know you are even behind them with good gear. They can also win nearly any 1v1 situation. If they could also catch nearly anyone who runs then that would be a bit much wouldn't you say? Anyway, every class has some sneaky way to either escape or catch running people when done correctly (except dks, they are just a pile of shit mobility-wise). A warrior can wait till you use you gap opener/chase type move then leap 40 yrds -> safeguard 25 to banner -> charge mob 20 yrds away and leave you going wtf.
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  15. #15
    Oh I'm aware how broken warlocks are if you let them do their thing. That's also not fine, and it's also the reason I'm gearing one (Can't bet 'em? Join 'em!). But that's beside the point, although I assume (and hope) they will also be nerfed come WoD. You could say it's all part of a bigger problem - either you CC someone and/or kill them in the opener or they run away / cc back and onehit you. That kind of gameplay is just not very fun, so we should pin-point and deal with each tiny bit that caused the game to devolve to this state. Escapes are a part of the problem -- along with cooldown stacking and everyone having everything. Which also makes this statement laughably ironic:

    We should delete all classes then give the one remaining class all the abilities of all the classes that way its balanced. You imbecile the classes need to all vary! Its what makes a class unique. And the game interesting!
    Let's play a little game. Name the class: Big hit/heal, small hit/heal, filler hit/heal, spamable aoe, proc, offensive cooldown, defensive cooldown, buff.
    Last edited by Saberstrike; 2014-06-07 at 04:02 AM.

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral De Lupe's Avatar
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    I'm confused. You're mad that people who don't want to fight you can avoid fighting you and escaping instead?

    As someone who played on a PvP server, sometimes the escape is more rewarding than the fight itself.

  17. #17
    Moderator Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstrike View Post
    Oh I'm aware how broken warlocks are if you let them do their thing. That's also not fine, and it's also the reason I'm gearing one (Can't bet 'em? Join 'em!). But that's beside the point, although I assume (and hope) they will also be nerfed come WoD. You could say it's all part of a bigger problem - either you CC someone and/or kill them in the opener or they run away / cc back and onehit you. That kind of gameplay is just not very fun, so we should pin-point and deal with each tiny bit that caused the game to devolve to this state. Escapes are a part of the problem -- along with cooldown stacking and everyone having everything. Which also makes this statement laughably ironic:



    Let's play a little game. Name the class: Big hit/heal, small hit/heal, filler hit/heal, spamable aoe, proc, offensive cooldown, defensive cooldown, buff.
    Why don't you play a Rogue, then?

    There's also no doubt that Warlocks are a little over the top (survivability-wise) at the moment, but Dark Bargain is justified as a talent. You can't deny Thunderstorm being in the game either, as it's really necessary for Elemental especially against melee, considering how much of an advantage they have with the amount of up time they're able to get away with in today's meta. Divine Shield is extremely iconic to the Paladin, too. Anyone who knows what they're doing can utilize it properly, but I do admit it has its flaws and sometimes the class suffers because of that.
    Quote Originally Posted by MurlocWarlock View Post
    If you just love being that guy that purposely, or accidentally carries out the action of "letting them win", roll a shaman, and get a FREE vacation to the Ashran Graveyard with scenic tombstones and a magnificent sunset view of your faction hiding in the bubble as DKS, hunters and Treesus Christ roflstomp your base, and all you have to do is call this number!
    SHA-MAN-SUCK (742-626-7825)

  18. #18
    Why don't you play a Rogue, then?
    They bore me. I play pvp to fight people, not helpless endlessly stunned dummies out of invisibility. I mained a rogue in wrath and honestly the way they were handled since s11 and for all of mop is an abomination that just needs to be put out of it's misery.

    I'm not saying dark bargain and thunderstorm -just- have to go. I simply feel like they're a part of ability bloat blizzard is trying to address to shift said meta. Elemental's inherent weakness was always their vulnerability to melee, and even now if they bait an interrupt with lava burst they can stand there / heal for 4 seconds (melee lockout) until it's back up again. That's not to mention peels they should get from their team, but that's all beside the thread!

  19. #19
    Moderator Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstrike View Post
    They bore me. I play pvp to fight people, not helpless endlessly stunned dummies out of invisibility. I mained a rogue in wrath and honestly the way they were handled since s11 and for all of mop is an abomination that just needs to be put out of it's misery.

    I'm not saying dark bargain and thunderstorm -just- have to go. I simply feel like they're a part of ability bloat blizzard is trying to address to shift said meta. Elemental's inherent weakness was always their vulnerability to melee, and even now if they bait an interrupt with lava burst they can stand there / heal for 4 seconds (melee lockout) until it's back up again. That's not to mention peels they should get from their team, but that's all beside the thread!
    That really depends on your definition of ability bloat though. Mine is: redundant, or nigh useless abilities. Neither of these abilities are described as either of those and aren't the cause of this meta. Melee having to have countless gap closers or movement impairment immunity's to be able to have up-time on the casters who have countless gap creators, in addition to all the crowd control is the cause for such a meta.

    This game works on the typical Rock-Paper-Scissors system, where it's Warrior-Rogue-Mage. Warriors are given abilities to counter Rogues, while Rogues are given abilities to counter Mages and they too are given abilities to counter Warriors. This cycle continues until everyone has countless gap closers, gap creators, stuns, slow, snares, interrupts, absorption effects, strong healing, and so on until it's so out of whack that everybody else suffers for it because they're not given anything to compensate.
    Quote Originally Posted by MurlocWarlock View Post
    If you just love being that guy that purposely, or accidentally carries out the action of "letting them win", roll a shaman, and get a FREE vacation to the Ashran Graveyard with scenic tombstones and a magnificent sunset view of your faction hiding in the bubble as DKS, hunters and Treesus Christ roflstomp your base, and all you have to do is call this number!
    SHA-MAN-SUCK (742-626-7825)

  20. #20
    The game hasn't been rock-paper-scissors for a long time. It's more in the lines of knife -> shotgun -> magic bullsh*t now. Getting it back to rock paper scissors, or as I like to call it 'the canons of RPG' (where mana ends and casters have to concentrate, warriors don't bounce around like flubber and rogues have to consider their health / cooldowns carefully) is what I'm trying to think on how to do, focusing on one annoying over the top thing at a time.

    I main a warrior and I'm honestly annyed with having to do those ridiculous 100 yard leap -> banner intervene -> charge combos. Don't get me wrong, it's cool and all but it also feels flimsy as all hell to pretty much be required to be on the move all the time. When you play a class that swings a giant axe you expect to be able to pin people down and overpower them as opposed making Benny Hill theme appropriate.
    Last edited by Saberstrike; 2014-06-07 at 05:40 AM.

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