Page 54 of 54 FirstFirst ...
4
44
52
53
54
  1. #1061
    Quote Originally Posted by wrynil View Post
    How does Grace work on beta? Its not the good ol 3 stacks grace or?
    It's just a (hidden) 30% increase to our healing and absorbs now. It's not a buff that we apply anymore.

  2. #1062
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    Yes of course, it is a good idea to have such a thing.
    Having some hidden buff turned up to 30% when the expansion didn't even go live yet however is not.
    It speaks of poor design to have two specs which share spells and one of them needs an extra 30% blanket buff (on top of the other 10% one).
    It is only 30%. The 10% buff was rolled into grace. I asked larynx to check it and he did. The only scaling factor is 1.3.

  3. #1063
    Now for some Holy discussion...am I missing something, or is Clarity of Purpose kinda dumb?

    PoH costs 11k mana and heals 9500 x 5 targets = ~47,500 total healing.
    CoP costs 7.3k mana and heals 4300 x 6 possible targets = ~25,000 total healing

    It just doesn't seem worth it at all. Sure, the mana cost is reduced by roughly 50%, but so is the total healing. What's the point? It seems kinda neat in that it's a cooldown-free CoH, but it does less hps than PoH for the same mana, and has a drastically reduced range. (10yd compared to 30yd)

    Maybe it will be useful if there's an AoE damage part of a raid boss where the whole raid is stacked, but even then I'd still take PoH because it's much higher HPS.

  4. #1064
    CoP does increased healing on targets that have health missing up to 100% extra. If you heal someone at less than 10% you get full benefit for 100% extra if you heal someone at 90% you'll get pretty much nothing etc. CoP also doesn't have the group limitation that plagues PoH since forever but it has smaller range and is also affordable for full spamming unlike PoH which isn't.
    Taking the talent is still not worth it since sanctuary + renew + coh + PoM with WoM and glyph + ToF combined with lots of multistrike is the unbeatable combo to max hps and that won't change until any of the spells of the above combination get nerfed which is highly doubtful or PoH, CoP get buffed in some way which is more plausible.
    Isheria - Method - Twisting Nether

  5. #1065
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    CoP does increased healing on targets that have health missing up to 100% extra. If you heal someone at less than 10% you get full benefit for 100% extra if you heal someone at 90% you'll get pretty much nothing etc. CoP also doesn't have the group limitation that plagues PoH since forever but it has smaller range and is also affordable for full spamming unlike PoH which isn't.
    Taking the talent is still not worth it since sanctuary + renew + coh + PoM with WoM and glyph + ToF combined with lots of multistrike is the unbeatable combo to max hps and that won't change until any of the spells of the above combination get nerfed which is highly doubtful or PoH, CoP get buffed in some way which is more plausible.
    I remember a while back you were suggesting that Power Infusion was the best 75 talent to take. I think the reasoning was that ToF procs are quite rare since its nerf and the 15% healing buff isn't particularly great in comparison to a controlled 25% haste + 20% reduced mana cost.
    Just curious what the reasoning is behind the thought change?

  6. #1066
    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc12 View Post
    It is only 30%. The 10% buff was rolled into grace. I asked larynx to check it and he did. The only scaling factor is 1.3.
    Can confirm this.

    It seems the Discipline passive was removed or baked into Grace, since like Havoc said the only modifier is Grace (at 30%) now.

    spellpower*5*(1+mastery)*(1+versatility)*1.3 was the formula used to calculate PWS. 1.3 is the Grace modifier.
    4635*5*1.2325*1.024*1.3 = 38023.

    Actual in-game number is 38055.
    Last edited by Larynx; 2014-10-07 at 10:24 AM.
    WoD updated Disc Priest Guide http://i.imgur.com/eOlZz9N.png

  7. #1067
    The reasoning is power word: solace giving 2% max mana every 10 sec, you don't need mana regen enchants, food at all with this talent you go full throughput and you have virtually endless mana while massively increasing your healing output. ToF on progress has more than 50-60% uptime on most fights, this is a gigantic boost to your healing and divine insight is worthless since you can't spam PoH for procs. I'm still surprised how solace hasn't been nerfed yet, it's way too overpowered currently.
    Isheria - Method - Twisting Nether

  8. #1068
    If ToF sees such a high uptime with Holy, is it at all viable with Discipline? Or, are shields still not proccing ToF and Spirit Shell is still our go to talent?

  9. #1069
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimeez View Post
    If ToF sees such a high uptime with Holy, is it at all viable with Discipline? Or, are shields still not proccing ToF and Spirit Shell is still our go to talent?
    Absorbs neither proc nor benefit from ToF, last I checked.
    WoD updated Disc Priest Guide http://i.imgur.com/eOlZz9N.png

  10. #1070
    Shields and absorbs in general don't proc ToF only actual healing does which is something you can achieve by using the pw:s glyph that converts 20% of the absorb into healing instead. Spirit shell without 4p well good luck using that with 11.4k per cast and you won't have access to tier before february when the 2nd instance releases since there's no tier in the 1st instance.
    Isheria - Method - Twisting Nether

  11. #1071
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    The reasoning is power word: solace giving 2% max mana every 10 sec, you don't need mana regen enchants, food at all with this talent you go full throughput and you have virtually endless mana while massively increasing your healing output. ToF on progress has more than 50-60% uptime on most fights, this is a gigantic boost to your healing and divine insight is worthless since you can't spam PoH for procs. I'm still surprised how solace hasn't been nerfed yet, it's way too overpowered currently.
    We were all surprised as well when disc was released as they were for 5.4, I think at this point it's safe to say that being surprised just shows a lot of blind faith in blizzard.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aimeez View Post
    If ToF sees such a high uptime with Holy, is it at all viable with Discipline? Or, are shields still not proccing ToF and Spirit Shell is still our go to talent?
    I don't see why Holy Nova wouldn't proc ToF on fights where Holy can have high uptimes.
    To be human is to possess superior intelligence to other species, yet channel that otherwise-wondrous potential into the most degenerate of endeavors rather than benefiting the world.

  12. #1072
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    I don't see why Holy Nova wouldn't proc ToF on fights where Holy can have high uptimes.
    Very true! I need to get into the mindset of remembering about HN. I can't really see much of a purpose to Power Infusion with PoH being so expensive. Perhaps for CoW building? I guess this means opting for either PI or ToF depending on the encounter until the next Tier opens. I think that is actually a little nice in that we can expect our gameplay to vary a touch in the same tier.

  13. #1073
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimeez View Post
    Very true! I need to get into the mindset of remembering about HN. I can't really see much of a purpose to Power Infusion with PoH being so expensive. Perhaps for CoW building? I guess this means opting for either PI or ToF depending on the encounter until the next Tier opens. I think that is actually a little nice in that we can expect our gameplay to vary a touch in the same tier.
    If we do fights with low ToF uptimes, we may as well run something else that is at least somewhat useful than next to useless, but that will have to come after experiencing raids properly when they get released as we learn the ins and outs of the encounters involved.

    ToF is definitely more situational than it was in MoP, no doubt about it.
    To be human is to possess superior intelligence to other species, yet channel that otherwise-wondrous potential into the most degenerate of endeavors rather than benefiting the world.

  14. #1074
    Quote Originally Posted by wrynil View Post
    How does Grace work on beta? Its not the good ol 3 stacks grace or?
    3 stacks passive on everyone :/

  15. #1075
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    The reasoning is power word: solace giving 2% max mana every 10 sec, you don't need mana regen enchants, food at all with this talent you go full throughput and you have virtually endless mana while massively increasing your healing output. ToF on progress has more than 50-60% uptime on most fights, this is a gigantic boost to your healing and divine insight is worthless since you can't spam PoH for procs. I'm still surprised how solace hasn't been nerfed yet, it's way too overpowered currently.
    What about the 4 set. You can cast a lot of PoH with serendipity. You need roughly 12k mp5 total regen to make a playstyle effectively casting a 2x serendipity PoH every 3 spells sustainable over 10 minutes and PoM with the 2set is with all procs together your strongest and most mana efficient heal. If you use Solace and you use a mix of renew and BH, while waiting for PoM procs to happen you can literally spam PoH with a mana drain at roughly 3k per second. For a total drain of 15k mp5. With a total of 12k mp5 you will run oom in about 5 minutes, of heavy aoe healing, which should be sustainable. The difference is you can push out in excess of 65k HPS sustained this way (at 5k sp, 30% multi and the rest on mastery) while CoH/renew/PoM caps at around 55k.

    One PoH every 10s (cast with 2x serendipity ofc) gives you 0.4 PoM procs for 70k instead of a renew for 28k. So about 20k healing per 10s or 2k HPS. ToF at 50% uptime increases raw HPS by 7.5% which at 60k HPS is 4.5k HPS. With all three talents and using PoM on CD you can easily achieve one PoH per 6s, which is 3.3k HPS, but it also means two guaranteed extra serendipity procs per 10s, which is another PoH instead of a renew. The best part about DI is that you don't need to wait for the PoMs to trigger, meaning that you get the serendipity returns instantly. The only question is can you get enough mana regen and how much you lose from throughput stats.

    can you tell us how much mana regeneration you have in total in combat and what kind of raw HPS you can push out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    We were all surprised as well when disc was released as they were for 5.4, I think at this point it's safe to say that being surprised just shows a lot of blind faith in blizzard.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I don't see why Holy Nova wouldn't proc ToF on fights where Holy can have high uptimes.
    The reason is EoL/Renew. Holy will have a HoT on at least 10 people on a permanent basis. If one of them dips below the threshold it will instantly proc ToF. Disc on the other hand hits 5 random injured targets with HN and if the raid is spread out a lot of the healing comes from PWS which does not proc ToF. If one target dips below the threshold disc can easily miss it.
    Last edited by Havoc12; 2014-10-07 at 10:50 PM.

  16. #1076
    With 630 ilvl you could easily push 45-50k sustained without worrying about mana at any point, mana regen was roughly 5.3k, reaching 12k mp5 in order to sustain PoH is not even happening with full mythic gear even if you stack spirit on every slot which would cloak,neck both rings and both trinkets plus using spirit weapon enchant and spirit food.
    Isheria - Method - Twisting Nether

  17. #1077
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    With 630 ilvl you could easily push 45-50k sustained without worrying about mana at any point, mana regen was roughly 5.3k, reaching 12k mp5 in order to sustain PoH is not even happening with full mythic gear even if you stack spirit on every slot which would cloak,neck both rings and both trinkets plus using spirit weapon enchant and spirit food.
    Solace is 1800mp5 so that is ~7kmp5. Renew/CoH sanctuary has a drain that is less than 5k mp5. That means you should be able to regenerate mana this way. Is this correct?

    That should limit you to one 2xserendipity PoH per 10s. Or one and a half full minute s of burst.

  18. #1078
    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc12 View Post
    The reason is EoL/Renew. Holy will have a HoT on at least 10 people on a permanent basis. If one of them dips below the threshold it will instantly proc ToF. Disc on the other hand hits 5 random injured targets with HN and if the raid is spread out a lot of the healing comes from PWS which does not proc ToF. If one target dips below the threshold disc can easily miss it.
    Why are you playing disc for spread fights then? Also, EoL ticks every 3 seconds, that's not "instantly proc ToF" by any means.
    To be human is to possess superior intelligence to other species, yet channel that otherwise-wondrous potential into the most degenerate of endeavors rather than benefiting the world.

  19. #1079
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    3 stacks passive on everyone :/
    Sounds horrible. I was looking forward to actually paying some attention to grace with the new healing model but oh well..
    The Art of Losing - Danish guild at 14/14hc looking for 5 more dps for 25man roster. Other nordic people are welcome if being exactly what we are looking for.

  20. #1080
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    Why are you playing disc for spread fights then? Also, EoL ticks every 3 seconds, that's not "instantly proc ToF" by any means.
    Disc with 30% grace is good for every fight. Also you can have a situation where you have your raid separated in clumps. E.g. melee clump, range clump1, range clump2. In these cases you can utilise holy nova effectively on your clump but you will only cast actual heals on the other clumps occasionally. Then again even in one clump if 10 targets are injured and only 1 is low then how many HNs on average will it take to proc a heal? Your chance is 50% with 1 cast, 75% with 2 casts. 0.875% with 3 casts and so on. I.e. there is a pretty big chance that you will miss it for 3 GCDs and even then you will be on a GCD after you hit it, so you lost a GCD already. For holy it can occur at any time from all the passive HoTs, meaning you don't lose that GCD. Each GCD is over 10% of the buff duration so that matters.

    The chance that damage will occur EXACTLY after EoL has ticked is not very large. The damage is equally likely to happen at every single time point between the ticks and since it is everywhere equally likely then on average EoL will activate ToF from someone who went low in 1.5seconds. Rarely it will occur after almost 3 seconds. Equally rarely it will occur 0.1s after the damage is taken. More often the delay will be somewhere in between. Aside from EoL holy also has renew and sanctuary and lightwell (which targets specifically low health targets). That means you can have two HoTs on the target, which could be staggered and then the average delay will be less than 1s.

    On top of that CoH and PoM from holy allow more targets to be healed per unit time and can target any group, which is even more chances to proc ToF. All in all you can expect holy to get significantly better benefit from ToF.
    Last edited by Havoc12; 2014-10-08 at 04:19 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •