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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Thieves cant View Post
    hope this satisfy the OP.
    I can't really see how that has anything to do with the OP about stealth openers... so I don't see how that can satisfy the OP.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTophat View Post
    While I would love for Rogue stealth abilities to receive some sort of buff/change, I doubt it'll happen. The class as a whole doesn't seem to get much attention, despite having 3 utterly homogenized specs and a serious disconnect between class identity and class ability.

    But I'm just weird, perhaps.
    class identity is a thief all three specs. your right though you wrote it best.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    I can't really see how that has anything to do with the OP about stealth openers... so I don't see how that can satisfy the OP.
    i can't fix the OP lack to learn either sesshou.
    The spirit of the Jaguar walks with me for he commands respect to those standing at my presence. he eats hearts full with abhorrence. Jaguar and I share a friendship. I am the noble thief - Rogue.

    Truth a double edge sword; always both sides to truth, when combined separates good from evil.
    always good and evil there are.

  3. #23
    It's so bad now, their method of letting use openers more requires not being in stealth.

    Doing too much damage in one hit is OP. Etc.

    The only reason I fell in love with Subtlety in the old days was because of how stealth oriented it was. Sneaking around and getting that one big Ambush off was satisfying. Getting a few links really hurt, because your single target damage wasn't that good.

    All they would have to really do is make Master of Subtlety matter again. Have it break instantly when you leave stealth, and have it be a very huge increase in opener damage. Can even make it have Cheap Shot do (not very good) damage. Could add a debuff in PvP only like "You have been recently ambushed! Your perception has increased temporarily...", making further Ambushes do 60% less damage for 6-8 secs. That would prevent vanish spamming or Rogue stacking.

  4. #24
    Stealth openers arnt allowed to hit hard because of shadowdance. Their main purpose is to apply find weakness now.

    I'd rather see shadowdance replaced with a 5 second subterfuge 30 second cooldown

    Cloak and dagger in guildwars2 looks good, they found away to work stealth into combat.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Murdeh View Post
    Stealth openers arnt allowed to hit hard because of shadowdance. Their main purpose is to apply find weakness now.

    I'd rather see shadowdance replaced with a 5 second subterfuge 30 second cooldown

    Cloak and dagger in guildwars2 looks good, they found away to work stealth into combat.
    Can't help but agree here. I've never liked shadowdance, especially when it started off as the last-tier-talent for sub rogues. I'd much rather see it removed from the game, and some QoL improvements made towards stealth rogues as a result. Going back to what another poster said - Mutilate is a helluva lot better than Ambush, and thats just not right.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantor View Post
    Come back after you've played a Feral Druid and tell me again about how Rogue stealth openers are underwhelming.

    Edit: I play a heroic Feral and have a Rogue alt, and the Rogue stealth toolkit is better by miles; stealth is a much larger part of the class and it really shows in comparison.
    Blizzard is making it pretty obvious in WoD that they don't consider feral to be a stealth class in the way rogues are. As you've said yourself, stealth is a big part of our class like shapeshifting is a big part of druids'.

    I don't consider the openers to be that bad. Ambush would really be a ton better if it got it's 60% crit boost back (I don't see why it didn't since they're doing the same for ravage). Stuns will be stuns and silence will be silence. They're fine really, in PvP atleast. I don't think ambush has ever been worth it for combat or assa though (in PvP or PvE)? With the exception of vanilla maybe, didn't play rogue yet back then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Murdeh View Post
    Stealth openers arnt allowed to hit hard because of shadowdance. Their main purpose is to apply find weakness now.

    I'd rather see shadowdance replaced with a 5 second subterfuge 30 second cooldown

    Cloak and dagger in guildwars2 looks good, they found away to work stealth into combat.
    Shadowdance is what keeps sub alive in PvP at times though. :/ Without it I doubt the spec would've seen much play at all throughout MoP. And if Shadowdance was the problem they could easily fix that by adding damage reduction of ambush while it's active. Kinda like how ambush costs less energy during dance.
    Last edited by ophion1990; 2014-06-11 at 08:53 AM.

  7. #27
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murdeh View Post
    Stealth openers arnt allowed to hit hard because of shadowdance. Their main purpose is to apply find weakness now.

    I'd rather see shadowdance replaced with a 5 second subterfuge 30 second cooldown

    Cloak and dagger in guildwars2 looks good, they found away to work stealth into combat.
    GW2 cnd stealth would be insanely op in WoW, a vanish move requiring a melee target costing a bit of energy with no cooldown. Generally stealth is incredibly OP in GW2 and the only reason it's still there is because viable thieves are incredibly squishy, unlike WoW where everybody has the tools to survive more or less equally.

  8. #28
    The Patient StephenHolder's Avatar
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    I just dont get why sub is the only spec that benefits offensively from stealth and from using ambush. Subs openers are plenty strong because of find weakness, just use an eviscerate after before weakness ends and you will get a big hit.

    Combat and mut openers are disgustingly weak.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by oldschoolrogueplayer View Post
    I just dont get why sub is the only spec that benefits offensively from stealth and from using ambush. Subs openers are plenty strong because of find weakness, just use an eviscerate after before weakness ends and you will get a big hit.

    Combat and mut openers are disgustingly weak.
    I agree with this at every possible level.


    It's like they just FORGOT about it. I'm sure the official reason is so you don't feel the need to vanish as a dps cooldown, but every pve combat or mutilate rogue has shadow focus anyway, so it's already a fucking dps cooldown. Ambush and Garrote should be increased in damage or effect or something- Garrote could be buffed massively because it's a dot and won't be bursty, and maybe these things could advance bandit's guile.

  10. #30
    Mechagnome DrArtorius's Avatar
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    That idea of making Ambush hit for a lot more on the first hit and leave an "awareness" debuff that makes the target receive less damage from it for a period of time is just golden, it brings strong openers and leave Shadow Dance not broken.

    Stealthed Rogues are supposed to be scary!
    Last edited by DrArtorius; 2014-06-28 at 10:55 PM.

  11. #31
    we have some of the strongest burst every time we open, it's all about learning to keep energetic recovery, sanguary veins, master of subtlety and find weakness up and stacking mastery to make evis crit 100-130k

  12. #32
    Mechagnome DrArtorius's Avatar
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    Yeah we do, and that's exactly why we do shit damage any other time during the match. Not to mention Faerie Fire and Flare which both are hard counters.

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