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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayen View Post
    My argument had nothing to do with instanced scenarios, of course pvp gear should be better for organised pvp.. however there is no skill gate to high end pvp gear like there is pvp gear, hence why hc pve gear should have the advantage in a world setting.

    Saying pvp gear should be equal to the highest tier of pve gear is utter bullshit. If there was a rating requirement for superior gear in pvp, I would agree. The raid gear works on 4 different level, pvp gear is equal to the time commitment of lfr / flex gear to obtain. hc gear should have an advantage, just not as marked as it currently is.
    World pvp = pvp

    Therefore pvp gear should be the best. Not hard to understand?

    pve gear is best for pve, why should pvp gear not be?

  2. #102
    Have all of you ever read the WoD notes ???

    This is what Blizz said for WoD :

    PvP gear will be better for PvP instances (arena/BGs)
    PvE gear will be better for PvE instances (Raids/Dongeons)

    PvE gear will be slightly better for world PvE (questing, farming, etc...)
    PvP gear will be slightly better for world PvP.

    That's it ! And this is exactly what everybody in here wants !

  3. #103
    I am Murloc! Baracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayen View Post
    To add on to other peoples comment, "World pvp" is not truly pvp. Raiders have their raids, and pvp'ers have their bgs. Anything other than that is middle ground and should be treated as such.
    YOU think PvE gear should be better. It's not an intentional design decision by Blizzard, it's a side-effect of making resilience baseline. They're FIXING that in WoD, Blizzard does NOT agree with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Trample View Post
    Have all of you ever read the WoD notes ???

    This is what Blizz said for WoD :

    PvP gear will be better for PvP instances (arena/BGs)
    PvE gear will be better for PvE instances (Raids/Dongeons)

    PvE gear will be slightly better for world PvE (questing, farming, etc...)
    PvP gear will be slightly better for world PvP.

    That's it ! And this is exactly what everybody in here wants !
    /thread
    /10char

    Infracted for minor spam
    Last edited by Nicola; 2014-06-14 at 10:37 AM.

  5. #105
    No that is no /thread because

    a) It has been promised for every other Expansion and never kept. Here is promise for Mists "At the higher end, a PvP geared player will both do more damage in PvP and take less damage in PvP than a player in similarly powerful PvE gear."

    With bonus lie "expect legendary items to be *much* more rare than they are currently, so they'll also be less of a factor."

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/03/07/da...s-of-pandaria/

    Surely every Expansion has some sort of Developer talk like this about how PvP changes will make PvP gear better and it did not work out, just like it will not work out for WoD based on experience.

    And, again, even someone like me with little imagination came up with ideas how to circumvent the future ilvl downgrade system and reign supreme with strong PvE Gear at least in some cases. Surely creative people will come up with more ideas.

    b) The promise of a fix in future does not at all address current issues.
    Capitalism, Ho!

  6. #106
    I am Murloc! Baracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
    a) It has been promised for every other Expansion and never kept. Here is promise for Mists "At the higher end, a PvP geared player will both do more damage in PvP and take less damage in PvP than a player in similarly powerful PvE gear."

    With bonus lie "expect legendary items to be *much* more rare than they are currently, so they'll also be less of a factor."
    PvP players do more damage in instanced PvP and take less dmg with the trinket set bonus. Legendaries aren't a factor at all in instanced PvP and legendary procs don't work vs players anywhere. It's baseline resilience that broke World PvP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
    And, again, even someone like me with little imagination came up with ideas how to circumvent the future ilvl downgrade system and reign supreme with strong PvE Gear at least in some cases. Surely creative people will come up with more ideas.
    I feel like I've heard this crap before.
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  7. #107
    stay away from timeless isle :P

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
    No that is no /thread because

    a) It has been promised for every other Expansion and never kept. Here is promise for Mists "At the higher end, a PvP geared player will both do more damage in PvP and take less damage in PvP than a player in similarly powerful PvE gear."

    With bonus lie "expect legendary items to be *much* more rare than they are currently, so they'll also be less of a factor."

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/03/07/da...s-of-pandaria/

    Surely every Expansion has some sort of Developer talk like this about how PvP changes will make PvP gear better and it did not work out, just like it will not work out for WoD based on experience.

    And, again, even someone like me with little imagination came up with ideas how to circumvent the future ilvl downgrade system and reign supreme with strong PvE Gear at least in some cases. Surely creative people will come up with more ideas.

    b) The promise of a fix in future does not at all address current issues.
    What is your beef with the proposed changes for WoD? Is it purely based on their failure to deliver on their promises before, or is there something you don't like about this:
    PvP gear will be better for PvP instances (arena/BGs)
    PvE gear will be better for PvE instances (Raids/Dongeons)

    PvE gear will be slightly better for world PvE (questing, farming, etc...)
    PvP gear will be slightly better for world PvP.

  9. #109
    Pandaren Monk Darksoldierr's Avatar
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    Full heroic enhance, hunter or warlock can literally blow you up in a moment
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  10. #110
    I am Murloc! Baracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoldierr View Post
    Full heroic enhance, hunter or warlock can literally blow you up in a moment
    Hunter I'll agree on but the others are easy to avoid.
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  11. #111
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    Blizzard makes a lot of promises or statements of intention... Problem is that their intentions rarely go to plan. Blizzard make mistakes or go the wrong way with a lot of things in every expansion, they come up with solutions that don't work and they try things that give the opposite effect to the intended.

    That's why nobody believes anything they say and we end up with threads like this.
    I7 2600k @4.5ghz : 16GB DDR3 : GTX670 : Firestudio : Naga : G27

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Crruor View Post
    Its a 34ilvl gap, its not worth over 60% more damage with 10% less damage taken.
    No you are wrong. 34 ilvl absolutely trumps 60% more damage

  13. #113
    Currently replacing my prideful pieces with Ordos gear because the damage bonus is just too much to pass up.

    Just compare these two items;
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=102733
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=105789

    Be sure to check "upgrade level 4".

    +444 Stamina
    +296 Intellect
    +394 secondary stats
    -450 PvP power (just over 1% damage)

    And that's just Ordos gear.

    Raid gear needs to be scaled down in the world, or prideful gear needs to be scaled up in the world. We have 6 months of this expansion left, too long for Blizzard to just say "fuck it" to world PvP.

  14. #114
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    No you are wrong. 34 ilvl absolutely trumps 60% more damage
    Not to mention the HP difference. Some of those players have like 20% more hp compared to full prideful geared players. And yeah, players with 34 more ilvls do more dmg than players in full prideful simply because of the weapon and the trinkets.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Ermahgerd View Post
    Not to mention the HP difference. Some of those players have like 20% more hp compared to full prideful geared players. And yeah, players with 34 more ilvls do more dmg than players in full prideful simply because of the weapon and the trinkets.
    Arms and ret scale exceptionally well with the weapon. Imagine their damage with HWF weapons. Its no joke...
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Ermahgerd View Post
    Not to mention the HP difference. Some of those players have like 20% more hp compared to full prideful geared players. And yeah, players with 34 more ilvls do more dmg than players in full prideful simply because of the weapon and the trinkets.
    That's the major design flaw to me. PvP power only helps to keep the gear somewhat in line on the offensive side but it's a 1/3 health difference on the top end (full heroic raider versus full prideful player).

    In numbers, minus:
    9.000 stamina
    10.000 secondary stats
    20.000 attackpower
    and what to we get to offset this difference? 55% more damage dealt and 10% less damage taken.

    I don't see a problem with trinkets in general, i prefer using pvp ones there for the added defense and the control from insignia as a non-stealth & melee class but of course a 15k mainstat procc will beat a 7k mainstat procc any day... and let's better not even think about two of those
    Last edited by klausistklaus; 2014-06-14 at 10:31 AM.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by tauntor View Post
    What are you talking about. In 550 Ilvl pvp gear my mage will stomp most pve players that try to gank me
    rofl delusions of grandeur. Clueless.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Blizzard are morons for allowing people to upgrade gear another 2 times instead of putting in the stock standard raid wide buff in. They fucked up massively and completely contradicted themselves in weeks prior when they said "don't worry prideful gear will close the damage gap in world pvp". They have some seriously dumb people working for them at the moment.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Woodgela View Post
    Blizzard are morons for allowing people to upgrade gear another 2 times instead of putting in the stock standard raid wide buff in. They fucked up massively and completely contradicted themselves in weeks prior when they said "don't worry prideful gear will close the damage gap in world pvp". They have some seriously dumb people working for them at the moment.
    The PvE Upgrade change was useful, I am even a hipster and suggested this change before its implementation:
    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post

    Maybe Blizzard shouldn't even nerf content but expand the upgrade system by having loot of +8 ilvls Drop from next Reset on, and possibly enable 4 Upgrades for existing Loot, up from 2.
    But Blizzard did a mistake in not increasing PvP stats of PvP Gear to compensate. They make some valid points in their excuses such as it being rare that you meet, say, someone with Best in Slot PvE Gear from Method, and PvP against them in World but being rare makes these fights not less unfair. The Method Raider did something other than engaging in PvP combat to get their gear, but that gear is the best PvP Gear? That is just dumb.
    Capitalism, Ho!

  19. #119
    I am Murloc! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
    But Blizzard did a mistake in not increasing PvP stats of PvP Gear to compensate. They make some valid points in their excuses such as it being rare that you meet, say, someone with Best in Slot PvE Gear from Method, and PvP against them in World but being rare makes these fights not less unfair. The Method Raider did something other than engaging in PvP combat to get their gear, but that gear is the best PvP Gear? That is just dumb.
    And even the argument of bumping Prideful Gear up to 558 would imbalance top end PvP could be solved by making Prideful Gear scale down to 550 in instanced PvP, so that there's no changes to BGs and Arena, while keeping PvP gear from falling behind a bit less.

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  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
    Really? How stupid would it be if someone would suggest that the best PvP players (0.005 of Gladiators who get Mounts at end of season) get the best PvE Gear for raiding.

    Your argument was that pvp gear should be weaker due to it having "0 requirement or any sort of skill to get". Well more than 0.005 of all players killed Garrosh HC (I think ~~2%) so obviously getting Gladiator Mount has higher skill requirement - your own Logic.


    PvP and PvE are just such different playstyles that I beliece players should not be forced to play one of them to get the best gear for the other playstyle. You were certainly right with noticing that PvP gear is considerably easy to acquire but that is because the spirit of PvP is which player plays better - not who has better gear. PvE content is created differently with another philosophy and gear there serves as a neverending timesink - the Developer even posted that no one will ever acquire "Best in Slot" Gear in WoD:
    https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/statu...79116783370240
    One thing that's always bugged me about this is that I must miss the estimated population of people with 1750+ Arena rating during an active season versus players who have downed at least 1 Heroic boss during a tier. I picked 1750 since that's the lowest rating achievement I believe but if someone would suggest a different number go ahead.

    I'm still convinced that there's a smaller pool of people that satisfy 1750+ Arena rating every season than there are active raiders so it shouldn't surprise me that more people eventually down Heroic end tier boss than get Gladiator since Gladiator is a fixed percentage of whatever population of pvpers there are that season.

    But I'm getting beside the OP's point: I agree that pvp gear is weaker for world pvp than heroic pve gear. I just started farming bloody coins today as a Guardian Druid in a fairly nice way (I'm in a fairly un-traveled section of the zone and have a friend pay a person before I kill them for their coin) and this was going fine until a nearly Prideful Hunter jumped in and started attacking me. I couldn't kill him cause lol Guardian damage but he couldn't kill me either even after 10 minutes. He eventually left to get 2 other people to kill me which was annoying but I only had 2 minutes left on my Censer buff and had already made ~30 coins that hour anyway.

    Edit: For reference I'm 565 with a full normal/heroic SoO gear aside from my ToT trinkets. Replace those and I'd probably be 572+. Moreso if I could be arsed to actually upgrade all my gear but I retired my Druid when we got to Siegecrafter as my Warrior was better at belts than Feral.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trample View Post
    Have all of you ever read the WoD notes ???

    This is what Blizz said for WoD :

    PvP gear will be better for PvP instances (arena/BGs)
    PvE gear will be better for PvE instances (Raids/Dongeons)

    PvE gear will be slightly better for world PvE (questing, farming, etc...)
    PvP gear will be slightly better for world PvP.

    That's it ! And this is exactly what everybody in here wants !
    Sounds nice but I'll believe it when I see it happen.
    Last edited by Trubo; 2014-06-15 at 04:07 AM.

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