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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire StephenHolder's Avatar
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    Warriors get talent row that varies with spec what about rogues?!

    I know warriors arent pures they can fill 2 roles but 2 specs are dps and fury and Arms are getting different talents on one row.

    So what about rogues? Why cant rogues have 1-2 talents that vary with specialization? would love to see that. Locks get at least one I know of and Mages get like 4 talents that switch and mages are pures and all 3 mage specs use the same resource.

    all 3 warrior specs use the same resource and now they are getting varying talents, so what about US?!!!!!!

  2. #2
    Mechagnome DrArtorius's Avatar
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    Both Arms and Fury are screwed at beta... Rogues are in a extremely good position, we haven't much to complain about their changes. There are a lot to improve and a lot to do that could make Rogues better, I can't disagree, but at least they haven't made any stupid change yet.

    But anyway, we have a lot of bad made talent tiers in my opinion, they could make Shadowstep baseline and make that tier improve it, the same way the 15 tier does to stealth itself.

    Versatility could also be baseline. Then you'd have a place to put spec specific things...
    "Haste will fix it" - Ghostcrawler

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by oldschoolrogueplayer View Post
    I know warriors arent pures they can fill 2 roles but 2 specs are dps and fury and Arms are getting different talents on one row.

    So what about rogues? Why cant rogues have 1-2 talents that vary with specialization? would love to see that. Locks get at least one I know of and Mages get like 4 talents that switch and mages are pures and all 3 mage specs use the same resource.

    all 3 warrior specs use the same resource and now they are getting varying talents, so what about US?!!!!!!
    There's plenty of classes that have varying talent rows. Mages are going to have a different magebomb talent depending on spec. Locks are getting some variance. For hunters, BM gets a talent that makes pets better while MM and Surv get one that lets you play petless.

    In each of those instances, the varying talent is there because it makes sense with the spec. All the talents rogues have make sense for all the specs so there's no need to vary them. Maybe that means the rogue specs are too similar still. In which case, they are going to have to turn 1-2 of the specs on their heads the way they have with Arms/Fury before they have a reason to do varying talents.

  4. #4
    Everything is beta is final, and you should vocally oppose and judge based on beta status.

  5. #5
    Not to keep this thread goin, but in response to Abysal: Venom Zest doesn't really make sense for Combat or Sub. Feels like an assassination thing to me.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozolus View Post
    Everything is beta is final, and you should vocally oppose and judge based on beta status.
    Isn't part of the beta to have the community express their opinions on changes? Seems like hes doing exactly what he is supposed to do.

  7. #7
    High Overlord Sativ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrArtorius View Post
    Both Arms and Fury are screwed at beta... Rogues are in a extremely good position, we haven't much to complain about their changes. There are a lot to improve and a lot to do that could make Rogues better, I can't disagree, but at least they haven't made any stupid change yet.

    But anyway, we have a lot of bad made talent tiers in my opinion, they could make Shadowstep baseline and make that tier improve it, the same way the 15 tier does to stealth itself.

    Versatility could also be baseline. Then you'd have a place to put spec specific things...
    Currently on Beta. Warrior is the only Class I've encountered that can deal my whole life bar in a stun.

    55k Mortal Strike(hit)
    44k Colossus Smash(hit)
    100k~ Execute(crt)
    Sativ on Youtube: Informational Guides and PvP Tips for Rogues!
    http://www.youtube.com/user/SusejFTW

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire StephenHolder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sativ View Post
    Currently on Beta. Warrior is the only Class I've encountered that can deal my whole life bar in a stun.

    55k Mortal Strike(hit)
    44k Colossus Smash(hit)
    100k~ Execute(crt)
    sounds like warriors will be just fine fine as in over- powered, again. (following post is pretty much unrelated to warrior dps)

    I am tired of rogues being stuck as the boring classs, if your mut you spam mut and envenom and use rupture now. if your sub you do slice and dice and rupture otherwise evisc build with Hemo / stab

    if your combat you spam Sinister strike and blow 2 cools when they are up. WOW its like the old game except with missing all the good vanilla passives that were either baked in but nerfed or removed completely.

    people have suggested only one spec utilize poisons with great variation for a while now, or great poison variety for all 3 specs in general and a new resource for assassination usually labeled as poison vials

    and blizzard just wont budge.

    the only spec that gets to have any fun is Sub because you get a burst with every opener which makes you viable for Pvp in addition to a cooldown that isnt tied to only dealing damage. Yea i know its risk and reward because dance can get shut down with ease its only 8 seconds long and annoying positional attacks but they get everything on a silver platter.... energy is tied to SND which doesnt require you to regain melee distance with your target like rupture for Muti, your combo builder is cheap, you get extra combo points from a passive for allies dealing crits>Seal fate. Your finisher deals 100ks+ on players right now with find weakness up... last time i played the highest envenom i could muster in full grievous was around 60 thousand.

    We have the most useless talents, Cloak and dagger, leeching poison, do i really need to mention anything more?
    Last edited by StephenHolder; 2014-07-06 at 08:25 AM. Reason: cleanup

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by oldschoolrogueplayer View Post
    sounds like warriors will be just fine fine as in over fucking powered, again.
    Sounds like the start of every expansion, working as intended!
    nothing but empty space here bro. move along now.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Nalira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverforgetneverforgive View Post
    sounds like warriors will be just fine fine as in over fucking powered, again.

    im so sick of rogues being stuck as the boring classs, if your mut you spam mut and envenom and use rupture now. if your sub you do slice and dice and rupture otherwise evisc build with Hemo / stab

    if your combat you spam Sinister strike and blow 2 cools when they are up. WOW its like the old game except with missing all the good vanilla passives that were either baked in but nerfed or removed completely.

    people have suggested only one spec utilize poisons with great variation for a while now, or great poison variety for all 3 specs in general and a new resource for assassination usually labeled as poison vials

    and blizzard just wont budge.

    the only spec that gets to have any fun is Sub because you get a burst with every opener which makes you viable for Pvp in addition to a cooldown that isnt tied to only dealing damage. Yea i know its risk and reward because dance can get shut down with ease its only 8 seconds long and annoying positional attacks but they get everything on a silver platter.... energy is tied to SND which doesnt require you to regain melee distance with your target like rupture for Muti, your combo builder is cheap, you get extra combo points from a passive for allies dealing crits>Seal fate. Your finisher deals 100ks+ on players right now with find weakness up... last time i played the highest envenom i could muster in full grievous was around 60 thousand.

    We have the most useless fucking talents, Cloak and dagger, leeching poison, do i really need to mention anything more?
    Sometimes posts like these make me question my choice of class. It lasts for 1 second.
    If you don't like it don't play it. Simple as that. All these rage posts in the Rogue forum makes it very hard to follow actual discussions. I used to come here more often now almost everyone is just crying.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    Knowing Celestalon, he both A) doesn't know and B) will nerf the spec until he figures it out while denying it ever happened.
    "Mastery Haste will fix it."

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozolus View Post
    Everything is beta is final, and you should vocally oppose and judge based on beta status.
    No, you should wait until it's final and shipping. They couldn't POSSIBLY want feedback during the beta. Nooo....

    IN other words, your argument is stupid. People always say not to comment because 'it's beta' but when else SHOULD people give feedback? Face it, your argument boils down to "shut the fuck up."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozolus View Post
    Everything is beta is final, and you should vocally oppose and judge based on beta status.
    Yes, we fucking should. If you don't think this, you haven't paid attention.

    Beta is for feedback. If they wanted it to be all internal garbage, it would be internal garbage.

    Everything we told them about MoP launch- every single thing- was true. All you "beta is beta" guys lost us a whole fucking season in pvp and had us garbaged up in pve too. It took almost a year to recover from mop beta, anyone flipping their shit now is actually making the game actually maybe work.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome DrArtorius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sativ View Post
    Currently on Beta. Warrior is the only Class I've encountered that can deal my whole life bar in a stun.

    55k Mortal Strike(hit)
    44k Colossus Smash(hit)
    100k~ Execute(crt)
    It's not about being competitive or not, we've not even entered tuning phase. It's about being fluid, Arms was with nearly 50% downtime before this last change which adds Rend and a Slam talent. Do you know what 50% downtime means? 50% of the time without pressing any buttons because no rage or cds... It was the stupidest spec by far.

    Fury was also very damaged in consistency because of the removal of Heroic Strike, they're still working on it.


    Again, it's not about numbers, Arms was dealing enough damage to be competitive even with a rotation which managed to spend like 5 seconds without pressing buttons at all.
    "Haste will fix it" - Ghostcrawler

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire StephenHolder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalira View Post
    Sometimes posts like these make me question my choice of class. It lasts for 1 second.
    If you don't like it don't play it. Simple as that. All these rage posts in the Rogue forum makes it very hard to follow actual discussions. I used to come here more often now almost everyone is just crying.
    I don't play the game anymore thus I don't play the class anymore so Ive complied. This wasn't a rage thread i was asking a question and pointing out a sort of double standard.

    Yes i'm upset because i use to love this game and be passionate about the game and the class Its like watching a piece of art be torn up in front of you. Some people can eat the shit blizzard spews and some of us cannot.
    Last edited by StephenHolder; 2014-07-06 at 08:26 AM.

  15. #15
    I don't see the need for spec-sensitive talents when half our talents aren't interesting choices, or choices at all.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolkien View Post
    I don't see the need for spec-sensitive talents when half our talents aren't interesting choices, or choices at all.
    Someone give this man a cookie. And Blizzard some ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thieves cant
    I don't play the game anymore thus I don't play the class anymore so Ive complied.
    Then don't post.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    not quite Batman

  17. #17
    High Overlord Sativ's Avatar
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    Yeah, everything is up in the air. For all we know a month away we'll get an epic talent selection just like that!
    Sativ on Youtube: Informational Guides and PvP Tips for Rogues!
    http://www.youtube.com/user/SusejFTW

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Sativ View Post
    Yeah, everything is up in the air. For all we know a month away we'll get an epic talent selection just like that!
    Or we have MoP beta treatment again!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozolus View Post
    Everything is beta is final, and you should vocally oppose and judge based on beta status.
    You're clearly new here. History has shown us that the vast majority of things that rogues complain about from early to the end of beta do stay final, and they will bandaid us after launch.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sativ View Post
    Currently on Beta. Warrior is the only Class I've encountered that can deal my whole life bar in a stun.

    55k Mortal Strike(hit)
    44k Colossus Smash(hit)
    100k~ Execute(crt)
    Only because blizz buffed the shit out of those, since warriors have no other dmg dealing abilities atm. It won't be like that for much longer, hopefully...

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