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  1. #61
    The animation looks fine. It just needs to be faster, and with smoke poofs and Shadow Blades looking purple particles trailing off your weapons as you fall on them.

    The damage has to warrent its use on-CD, too.

    The shadow clone could do with some work too--Maybe floating behind the target or you while it's 'observing' you; then mimicing your abilities, then when it's done disapearing in a Vanish poof.


    People forget that particle effects do a LOT for WoW animations. Without them, almost every ability would look incredibly stupid.
    Also, I don't understand the people who actually like the horrible FoK animation. I liked it when they were actually little 3d daggers that flew out from you, rather than weird purpley energy with literally flat wall-tacks flying out.

  2. #62
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Looks alright, I wouldn't say it's exciting.
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  3. #63

    Angry

    Wooww ! I am soooooo impressed and soooooooo pround to play a rogue, especially after having seen the new visual effects of the *new spells* the mages will have... Poor guys !


  4. #64
    In addition to what I suggested earlier; shadow reflection repeats your attacks you did the last 8 seconds, but starts damage as soon as it spawns, I'd like it to redo the damage you did over the last 8 seconds in a shorter window, 4 seconds maybe, and have a vanish in vanish out animation. 4 seconds might be too short of a window however, creating strong burst.. I don't know, but the reflection just popping out and doing nothing for 8 seconds is so extremely dull, and basically do exactly the oposite of what rogues are supposed to do. Rogues are supposed to be swift, many smaller attacks. Not stand still for 8 seconds.

  5. #65
    Not impressed. The animations look very clunky and not well done at all. The effects do not seem readily noticeable at all - unless the vid was just for the animation and the skills themselves have not been added in game yet.

    Detailed critique:

    Death from above: We don't really need another finishing move. We have a lot to choose from already, and this will only be worked into a mob-clearing rotation. It could potentially have a place, but I'll leave that to my recommendations section.

    Shadow Reflection: It doesn't look like its emulating those skills at all. It looks like its just auto-attacking for similar numbers. Why does it need a death animation? It's also barely even visible there.. Seems like a half-baked mix between Dancing Rune Weapon and Storm/Earth/Fire. See recommendations.

    Recommendations:

    Death from above: Don't make such a complicated skill. I wouldn't have it as a finisher personally. If anything it should work more like Heroic Leap, except apply poisons. My version would be; [Death From Above] 1-20 yd range. 30 second cooldown. Jump up to a target location. Upon landing, perform a spin attack which does X damage and applies poison to all enemies within 8 yards.


    Shadow Reflection: Keep it simple, but thematic. Here's my version; [Shadow Reflection] Passively increases Multistrike chance by 5%. Multistrike attacks now trigger on up to 2 nearby targets for 50% less damage.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiJakkass86 View Post
    Death from above: We don't really need another finishing move. We have a lot to choose from already, and this will only be worked into a mob-clearing rotation. It could potentially have a place, but I'll leave that to my recommendations section.

    Shadow Reflection: It doesn't look like its emulating those skills at all. It looks like its just auto-attacking for similar numbers. Why does it need a death animation? It's also barely even visible there.. Seems like a half-baked mix between Dancing Rune Weapon and Storm/Earth/Fire. See recommendations.
    1: Death from Above is a 50% increase to the damage of the finishing move it replaces (Envenom/Eviscerate) according to their recent tweets (see https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...53778089451520). If chosen, it will be used on cooldown regardless if there are one or many mobs.

    2: Shadow Reflection actually does the opposite....it ONLY emulates skills and does not emulate auto-attacks or poison procs at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    The truth of the matter is, you have no proof for this and are just generating facts.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by SynergyDarkstar View Post
    1: Death from Above is a 50% increase to the damage of the finishing move it replaces (Envenom/Eviscerate) according to their recent tweets (see https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...53778089451520). If chosen, it will be used on cooldown regardless if there are one or many mobs.

    2: Shadow Reflection actually does the opposite....it ONLY emulates skills and does not emulate auto-attacks or poison procs at all.
    My original points still stand. We don't need another combo finisher that gets weaved into an otherwise tedious rotation as it is. If they want to add it, then do it as something other than a combo finisher - we need a gap closer anyways. Hell the current incarnation of this skill is complete misgnomered too. "Death from above" should be "Death starting from the ground, and then going back down to the ground from above".

    As for shadow reflection... great - its even worse than I originally thought :\. I wonder if the current form even benefits from multistrikes that occur during the recording phase.

  8. #68
    A tedious rotation? Are we talking rogue still?

    As for Shadow Reflection: i hope it goes from alpha to beta stage someday. And most summponed short time pets "die" at the end of their time. Silly but true.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    not quite Batman

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    A tedious rotation? Are we talking rogue still?

    As for Shadow Reflection: i hope it goes from alpha to beta stage someday. And most summponed short time pets "die" at the end of their time. Silly but true.
    Doesn't really seem like its a "pet" though. You aren't summoning a rogue from the shadow realm, you're just manipulating dark energies. To that effect its more like DRW, which I believe does not "die" at the end of its summon.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiJakkass86 View Post
    Doesn't really seem like its a "pet" though. You aren't summoning a rogue from the shadow realm, you're just manipulating dark energies. To that effect its more like DRW, which I believe does not "die" at the end of its summon.
    Probably dies because unlike drw it can be attacked and killed.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiJakkass86 View Post
    Doesn't really seem like its a "pet" though. You aren't summoning a rogue from the shadow realm, you're just manipulating dark energies. To that effect its more like DRW, which I believe does not "die" at the end of its summon.
    I wasn't talking about lore or flavour things but technicalities.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    not quite Batman

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiJakkass86 View Post
    My original points still stand. We don't need another combo finisher that gets weaved into an otherwise tedious rotation as it is. If they want to add it, then do it as something other than a combo finisher - we need a gap closer anyways. Hell the current incarnation of this skill is complete misgnomered too. "Death from above" should be "Death starting from the ground, and then going back down to the ground from above".

    As for shadow reflection... great - its even worse than I originally thought :\. I wonder if the current form even benefits from multistrikes that occur during the recording phase.
    One would think that juggling a timer on an additional finisher would spice up the "tedious rotation" by forcing the player to pay some minimal attention to an additional mechanic.

    As for the nomenclature, I think it's a throwback to Kil'ruk the Windreaver's ability (http://www.wowhead.com/npc=71161#abilities), who is a mantid Paragon similar in nature to a rogue; see his other abilities, Gouge and Mutilate. The effect in SOO for this is, guess what, leaps from the ground into the air, then dives downward to deliver a vicious strike.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    The truth of the matter is, you have no proof for this and are just generating facts.

  13. #73
    I'm gonna look forward to A realm reborn ff14 theif class in 2.4, as i played rogue in all my time in wow, from tbc to mop, since they already have 2 melee classes that already have very good animations for the respective classes, i wonder how much of an gap there will be between ffxiv theif and wow rogues in terms of animation and ways to make the subtle class actually look cool, and entertaining.

  14. #74
    Just wondering but isn't shadow reflections going to be pretty terrible for assassination?

    From what I've heard it doesn't copy poisons (main assassination damage) and only copies active damage abilities and assassination doesn't really spam those since they try to keep up envenom by spacing it out and mutilate is one of the slower abilities that we use it seems like assassination just won't get much out of that talent.

    Combat can AR and spam shit while getting a double killing spree which is strong as hell plus they can effectively get a 12 second stun with it. Get into right about going to hit deep insight have 5 cp saved up -> go into deep insight with a revealing strike -> pop shadow reflections -> kidney shot for an 8 second stun -> killing spree (deep insight funsies) -> mfd/evis -> pop adrenaline rush and proceed with normal CD rotation. Then once your 8 second stun wears off your clone hits another kidney shot giving 4 additional seconds of stun and then proceeds to mimic a killing spree and 5 pt. evis while still under deep insight and while you're pounding away under adrenaline rush.

    Sub can get a double dance in there with getting a shit ton of FW eviserates as well as multiple garrote silences and any stuns they throw in there as well.

    Combat seems to get the most out of it simply with the strength of double killing sprees and sub the second most but it just seems rather lack luster for assassination.

    As far as venom zest once again combat will get the most out of that ability since combat stacks haste increasing their energy regen where as sub and assassination both get a lot of their energy regen through venemous wounds or energetic recovery neither of those I see gaining a 5% boost to so it seems like that talent takes out a lot potential energy regen for those specs.

    DfA if it uses poisons on the aoe first attack seems like it'd be decent for assassination for aoe fights. Honestly though for DfA I wish they'd take out the 2 part attack, increase the range on it and make it an aoe eviscerate instead of a FoK + hard hitting finisher pretty much. Realistically if DfA just did an aoe eviscerate at the target with no damage at the start it still wouldn't be as powerful as abilities like bladestorm but would be a bit more potent than it is now. The problem I see with this is that as far as AoE goes is relatively lack luster and doesn't really bring much to the rogue. It seems to be in a similar situation as crimson tempest is now. Sure CT hits harder than FoK but it's still a shit ability. Also another problem is that it seems to have the potential ability as a gap closure type ability buuuuut there's two problems with that. First off if you use it as a gap closer you miss out on half of the two abilities it uses and second that the gap is relatively small at 20 yards which really I see a problem being that everything just ends up being out of range of that. Give it the same range as shadow step and pump all the damage into an aoe eviserate and I feel like it'll be a much more useful ability.

  15. #75
    I'm gonna look forward to A realm reborn ff14 theif class in 2.4, as i played rogue in all my time in wow, from tbc to mop, since they already have 2 melee classes that already have very good animations for the respective classes, i wonder how much of an gap there will be between ffxiv theif and wow rogues in terms of animation and ways to make the subtle class actually look cool, and entertaining.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Warstar View Post
    -long quote comparing the talents-
    I'm sure they will be tuned to be of similar benefit to every spec on a similar level.
    Last edited by Kael; 2014-06-12 at 07:51 AM.

  17. #77
    My opinion so far
    Combat
    I actually like death from above it seems really cool. Only thing im worrying about it if it will allow you to still Auto attack during it like killing spree does. If so then it probably will the best single choice for combat. Dont forget combat will now spread poisons with Blade flurry so im expecting venom zest to be better on a fight with multiple and constant adds. Reflections for combat seems viable too. Im wondering if whether it would finish the KS after it dies or just doing 10 stacks of anticipation and 2x evis during an AR or something for maybe a 3rd evis.

    Assassination
    Venom zest would be pretty cool seeing how the mut spec feels so slow when not within the 35% execute, it would allow for higher envenom uptime atleast. Reflections as someone said doesnt seem to AA this means unless it can double vendetta or something prob not worth(edit) I was thinking maybe double rupture ticking which now 100% procs venomous wounds isnt too bad for energy regen in the 24sec window. Death from above is viable as it replaces the evis for envenom in mut spec but this allows follows the thing if i said you can still auto for poison dmg to fill the time.

    Sub.
    Vz hmm not worth i think sub energy regen is decent already and aoe isnt subs strong point you would just play another spec if you needed AOE. Death from above could work as a finisher CD since mastery would boost the dmg by a hefty amount. Reflections tbh seems like the best fit with double dance every shadow dance it would be a good dps boost. Especially with the sub 4 set which gives energy regen allowing more finishers in. I think going 10 cps>pool>Reflections>SD> Evis evis ambush ambush evis might work out great.

    Pvp. (Im not amazing at pvp but i dabble)
    Vest nope
    Reflections god damn this would be so good for burst dmg. Double dance is good im only worrying about the DRs on the stuns if you cheap shot/kidney inside it. Im hoping that the reflection will stay on target and follow regardless otherwise we gonna have some problems. Would be good for applying pressure to targets by dancing on both since blinding then into Reflection on the blinded target while dpsing the main target and having it cc the blind target is gonna give rogues a whole load more kill pressure outside dancing and openers, considering Shadow blades is gone.
    Death from above would prob be nothing but a glorified Shadowstep in pvp i think. It would allow for instant target switching i guess. But im still guessing people will learn to blink/LoS you somehow, unless it goes round corners (batmobile style turning hook here).

    Thats my 2 cents atm. I havent read if they have changed anything in a while or if anything i said is inaccurate i apologize.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolkien View Post
    I'm sure they will be tuned to be of similar benefit to every spec on a similar level.
    You mean like they did with CnD when they introduced it?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolkien View Post
    I'm sure they will be tuned to be of similar benefit to every spec on a similar level.
    Don't worry man, haste will fix it :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    The truth of the matter is, you have no proof for this and are just generating facts.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by SynergyDarkstar View Post
    Don't worry man, haste will fix it :P
    yeah best design decision ever haste will fix all problems
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

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