Button bloat: Why not Soul Swap?

[Tya]

Saw a discussion about it here.
http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/251960-soul-swap/

What do you think of Soul Swap? Do you like the playstyle it offers? Would you trade it out for slightly stronger dots? (Compensation for being harder to apply. Single-target damage adjusted accordingly via malefic grasp). Soulburn -> Soul Swap could still exist in some regard if Blizzard willed it.

What do you think of Soul Swap?

[Jingoism]

Brodizzle's post pretty much sums up my thoughts on it after reading a bit of that thread.

[Jessicka]

Brodizzle's post pretty much sums up my thoughts on it after reading a bit of that thread.

Yep, going to second (third?) that post. That getting back to casting our DoTs was supposed to be a thing for MoP for both ourselves and Shadow Priests, it is silly that it's still in the game.

[Deleted]

Soul Swap is to Affliction what Fire & Brimstone is to Destruction. Its a unique signature spell. Together with Soulburn: Seed of Corruption it gives Affliction flavor and it is something the Shadow community roots for (not a clone, just something which spreads our dots). Giving it a cast time would maybe make it a bit less strong, but at the expense of losing its efficiency. It has to be in a kind of balance compared to raw applying of dots.

[Mammon]

Soulburn -> Soul Swap could still exist in some regard if Blizzard willed it.

But SB+SS is exactly the source of the SS spamfest. SS wasn't a problem back when it had a 30s CD.

[Jessicka]

Soul Swap is to Affliction what Fire & Brimstone is to Destruction. Its a unique signature spell. Together with Soulburn: Seed of Corruption it gives Affliction flavor and it is something the Shadow community roots for (not a clone, just something which spreads our dots). Giving it a cast time would maybe make it a bit less strong, but at the expense of losing its efficiency. It has to be in a kind of balance compared to raw applying of dots.

Well, you get a free 90 with WoD, pick up a Warlock and you're good to go if you're so desperate for it.

[Dnusha]

Imo SS is very userful ability, especially in PvP.

[Deleted]

Nothing would make me more happy then returning back to actually casting dots. Atleast SB:SS can eat shit and die. With the new changes to no snapshoting it will make a horrible PVP balance impact on the game, mark my words.

[Tya]

But SB+SS is exactly the source of the SS spamfest. SS wasn't a problem back when it had a 30s CD.

Yeah, my point was more to focus on Soul Swap as a spell rather than conflate the topic with "should SS+SB also exist?".

[Bonkura]

Soulburn is the problem not Soul Swap. Most people seem to actually be talking about Soulburn which shows how little they actually know about Warlocks and that they should't be taken seriously.

[Deleted]

It doesn't make sense to remove such a nice signature spell which defines Affliction. Don't remove it; if necessary, redefine it. Soul Shard generation from execute is addressed in WoD.

Well, you get a free 90 with WoD, pick up a Warlock and you're good to go if you're so desperate for it.

I have two level 90 Warlocks. I love the class, but I like Shadow just a little bit more. I also don't like rerolling to FOTM while I still like my main mechanic-wise tho at times I cursed myself for not rerolling.

[Soulzar]

From combating slow ramp up on target swapping to having no ramp up at all.....

[xskarma]

No, just no. Soul Swap itsself gave us something to switch our dots, so that we wouldn't be stuck waiting an ice age before we were finally doing damage, and with Soulburn added we were finally (and probably too efficiently due to snapshotting) able to have start of fight burst. Taking that away again would be worse then taking away our mobility. MUCH worse.

[Jessicka]

Soulburn is the problem not Soul Swap. Most people seem to actually be talking about Soulburn which shows how little they actually know about Warlocks and that they should't be taken seriously.

I think it was more important a thing when we had Shadow Embrace to worry about as well (and it didn't transfer that) which caused our overall ramp up to be pretty huge. Right now, it's saving you recasting UA, and that's about it. Any further returns are diminished by the amount of clipping, particularly of Agony that occurs. I just don't feel it's a necessary part of the toolkit; the problem it fixed, other changes have taken over, so now it has overcompensated for just so much that it's become one of the spec's major strengths.

[Mammon]

Yeah, my point was more to focus on Soul Swap as a spell rather than conflate the topic with "should SS+SB also exist?".

When you speak about the playstyle it offers and trading for stronger DoTs you are speaking about SB+SS and its side effects on regular SS.
Soul Swap is a nice tool to have, but its use needs the restriction of a CD, otherwise it becomes the OP spell we have today.
The whole problem comes from SB. Since it is so powerful any accidental use of regular SS would disrupt gameplay, so Blizzard tried to fix the problem by removing any restriction SS had.

[Tya]

It doesn't make sense to remove such a nice signature spell which defines Affliction. Don't remove it; if necessary, redefine it. Soul Shard generation from execute is addressed in WoD.

I don't think it's fair to say that Soul Swap is a signature spell. I also don't think many people would say that Soul Swap defines Affliction.

[Menlol2]

Soul Swap is to Affliction what Fire & Brimstone is to Destruction. Its a unique signature spell. Together with Soulburn: Seed of Corruption it gives Affliction flavor and it is something the Shadow community roots for (not a clone, just something which spreads our dots). Giving it a cast time would maybe make it a bit less strong, but at the expense of losing its efficiency. It has to be in a kind of balance compared to raw applying of dots.

The only signature spells to Affliction really is Agony, Corruption, and UA IMO.

I would love to get rid of SS and to actually cast my dots again, it felt like more rewarding and more engaging gameplay.

[Deleted]

Signature spell is a spell which defines the spec, which makes it outstanding compared to other classes. Its the unique flavor the spec has which no other spec has and, if they do, its a less powerful version of it.

Well lets see. Nightfall is just something RNGish and the other dots yeah, they got some unique flavor (Agony esp). But signature? Note with signature we don't refer to the thing you keep up all the time, or your fillter (Diablo 3).

Which spell(s) would you say defines Affliction? You could say oh its MG or Haunt cause it strengthens dots.

I'd be inclined to agree, and I'd be up for some kind of agreement on Soul Swap being a signature spell but maybe not the most important one.

The other outstanding thing about Affliction lies in its functionality of spreading dots. Soul Swap does that for Affliction (Soul Burn: Seed of Corruption as well). Combustion and Fire Blast do that for Fire. You build ignite up for Combustion and hence Combustion is a signature spell for Fire, perhaps the most significant one. While Combustion is a CD and Soul Swap is not, Soul Swap with Soul Burn is tied to resource.

What else would be the signature spell for Affliction? CoEx? Not the dots. There are a lot of dot classes. For me its Soul Swap, no doubt about it, esp because of Soulburn: Soul Swap.

[PickleballAce]

They're barely touching interrupts so I don't buy that all of a sudden SS isn't necessary from a PvP standpoint.

From a gameplay standpoint, Soul Burn + Soul Swap is trading a resource for I guess what could be called utility...in that you're trading a potential Haunt for instant DoT application..and the Devs seem to love little trade-offs like that. Then again, both Haunt and SB:SS are means to an end....more DPS.

I guess it depends on how they tune Affliction in WoD. If they're going to hit Single Target and leave Multi-Dotting strong, then we'd be looking at a spec weak at ST, AoE, and (w/o SB:SS) Burst as well.

I don't want to see it go but I wouldn't be particularly alarmed at its removal.

[Deleted]

I'd definitely prefer it to be gone or changed. I didn't really like it's earlier incarnation, and I definitely don't like it's current one where multidotting is just a mindless SS spamfest.

It was alright as the CD based "cleave" application of dots, the current spammy form is horrible.
I'd much rather there was a cooldown slapped on it and maybe the SS cost removed - I think it should be like a Deathknights pandemic, something that you can use to apply dots in your opener and sometimes as a free refresh when it's off CD / save it for adds.

I do wish hardcast dots would come back, I don't even enjoy multidotting anymore - the damage is there but the gameplay I'm not a fan of anymore.

Signature spell is a spell which defines the spec, which makes it outstanding compared to other classes. Its the unique flavor the spec has which no other spec has and, if they do, its a less powerful version of it.

Well lets see. Nightfall is just something RNGish and the other dots yeah, they got some unique flavor (Agony esp). But signature? Note with signature we don't refer to the thing you keep up all the time, or your fillter (Diablo 3).

Which spell(s) would you say defines Affliction? You could say oh its MG or Haunt cause it strengthens dots.

I'd be inclined to agree, and I'd be up for some kind of agreement on Soul Swap being a signature spell but maybe not the most important one.

I'll give you a clue, it wouldn't be a spell that has been here for an expansion or two. All of your choices seemingly being from WOTLK or later is alarming, the spec was the most characterful warlock spec for a lot longer than that.

What else would be the signature spell for Affliction? CoEx? Not the dots. There are a lot of dot classes. For me its Soul Swap, no doubt about it, esp because of Soulburn: Soul Swap.

That's like saying Pyroblast isn't a signature mage spell because there are other classes with long cast time damage spells or poly isn't a signature spell because of hex etc.
Affliction is THE dot spec and the only other spec with that kind of a reputation is shadow, and that used to just be considered a mana battery more than anything else.

Corruption, unstable affliction, curse of agony and drain life / soul are signature affliction spells. Soul Swap is a mechanical necesity that was added long after the spec had been around and built an image to address it's poor ramp up and is entirely a supplement to it's signature dots. I wouldn't consider that close to a signature ability - I'd put shadowbolt before that.