WoD Beta Affliction Discussion

[xskarma]

With the testing of Warlords of Draenor underway it seems like a good time to start making spec specific threads to ensure a large change in 1 spec doesn't overshadow equally valid discussion about another spec in the main WoD discussion thread.

Feel free to use this thread to chat about the spec in general, or about a specific issue you have, as well as any theorycrafting. Use it to ask questions, since this is the most likely place to find people with knowledge about Affliction and the way it will play in Warlords of Draenor!


To at least give this thread some sort of start, with still so few people in the test: How do you feel about the level 100 talents for Affliction?


IMPORTANT NOTE:

If you want to help make Warlocks awesome, mainly by making sure we can use Simcraft as an accurate tool to compare gear and talent set ups then please visit this thread and see if you can help out: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...4#post28070824

[PickleballAce]

SB:Haunt seems to be the least interesting of the three versions of Chaotic Resources, IMO, and probably hasn't ignited nearly as much discussion as the other two. Maybe Soul Shards were the hardest of the three resources to make work with their vision of the talent. Uncomplicated isn't necessarily the worst thing, but trying to come up with a different version of Chaotic Resources would be a decent little mental exercise.

[xskarma]

I personally dislike Cataclysm for Affliction. Just seems silly to have a talent do what we can basically allready do with a spell anyway, but probably easier and better. Not a fan at all. The rest I just want to have in my hands and play with myself. They seem allright, provided that Servitude Demons are moved away from being noob demons with no special abilities.

[Alarinth]

I'm not sold on SB:Haunt either, but I do hope it manages to make resource management a thing for affliction, seeing as there is no other thing at the moment. As far as Cataclysm goes, I feel it's very lackluster for affliction. It's a needed help with AoE, but the long cooldown and it spreading corruption makes it a bit meh.

[Brusalk]

I'm not sold on SB:Haunt either, but I do hope it manages to make resource management a thing for affliction, seeing as there is no other thing at the moment. As far as Cataclysm goes, I feel it's very lackluster for affliction. It's a needed help with AoE, but the long cooldown and it spreading corruption makes it a bit meh.

Actually, I think SB:Haunt makes resource management less of a thing as you're basically required to keep the buff up 100%, potentially leaving less shards for actual procs later.

Cataclysm feels lackluster for both Aff/Destro ATM. Demo's version seems good with it able to benefit from Demon form as well as apply Doom.

[Jessicka]

I honestly don't think you'll have nearly enough resources to maintain 100% up time on SB:Haunt. I think that's been the assumption, which is why it's been under-discussed. I think overall, regular Haunt will probably have priority under most circumstances, but SB:Haunt will take over once you're multidotting, which is where it starts to become really quite strong. Like Doombolt, I think we'll have to see some more tuning passes and maths before we can really work out how this is going to work out.

[Deleted]

I honestly don't think you'll have nearly enough resources to maintain 100% up time on SB:Haunt. I think that's been the assumption, which is why it's been under-discussed. I think overall, regular Haunt will probably have priority under most circumstances, but SB:Haunt will take over once you're multidotting, which is where it starts to become really quite strong. Like Doombolt, I think we'll have to see some more tuning passes and maths before we can really work out how this is going to work out.

I did the math a while ago.

Damage haunt gives [(100*1.40)*8]-100*8= 320 Damage (100 is a random number for the damage the dots do)

Damage SB haunt gives [(100*1.15)*30]-100*30= 450 Damage (100 is a random number for the damage the dots do)

SB haunt is a 40% gain over just haunt (This gain increases greatly the more targets you have).

You should also be able to maintain 100% SB haunt uptime as corruption ticks every 2 seconds (at 0% haste) and has a 15% proc chance in WoD, so 15 ticks every 30 seconds is 15*0.15=2.25 shards every 30 seconds.

[Jessicka]

If that's how they intend to balance it out, then SB:Haunt is a gross a simplification of the spec, transfering the emphasis to good use of Haunt to simply maintaining 100% uptime on a buff. That just sucks.

[kornoth]

SB: Haunt gives 20% increased dot damage ( in the alpha right now) not 15% and haunt alone gives 35%, so the priority is to have haunt for single target burst, and if you have enough shards you SB: haunt. Multi target fight SB: haunt will be the way to go because it applies for all of your dots and the haunt 35% buff is additive so it comes after.

[Elise the Seeker]

I feel Haunt needs to be reworked again honestly. I'm surprised there wasn't a talent for the old Siphon Life.

[kornoth]

I did the math a while ago.

Damage haunt gives [(100*1.40)*8]-100*8= 320 Damage (100 is a random number for the damage the dots do)

Damage SB haunt gives [(100*1.15)*30]-100*30= 450 Damage (100 is a random number for the damage the dots do)

SB haunt is a 40% gain over just haunt (This gain increases greatly the more targets you have).

You should also be able to maintain 100% SB haunt uptime as corruption ticks every 2 seconds (at 0% haste) and has a 15% proc chance in WoD, so 15 ticks every 30 seconds is 15*0.15=2.25 shards every 30 seconds.

your math is wrong , if you have 2 shards to apply the SB:Haunt, then you could have haunt 2 times, you need to add 8 more seconds to the haunt debuff and the haunt damage itself ( wich is very high it seems) . And the SB:Haunt buff is 20% not 15%, and the haunt debuff is 35% not 40%.

[Deleted]

In WoD, still only 1 application of Corruption counts for the purpose of shard generation, yes? Then I believe we might in fact be starved for shards (since we lose the ability to replenish 4 shards on adds and also the increased shard regen from Drain Soul, iirc). Especially early in the expansion, since our gear will go back from crazy to crap as we level 90-100 (which means a lot less haste = less shards).

EDIT: Also, I wish they gave us a fourth dot, maybe old-style Siphon Life? It could use a shard to apply, be only applicable to main target and interact with the other dots, perhaps giving us the increase to dot damage that SB: Haunt gives? That'd be much more interesting, since the current SB: Haunt spell is just meh.

[Deleted]

your math is wrong , if you have 2 shards to apply the SB:Haunt, then you could have haunt 2 times, you need to add 8 more seconds to the haunt debuff and the haunt damage itself ( wich is very high it seems) . And the SB:Haunt buff is 20% not 15%, and the haunt debuff is 35% not 40%.

My math isn't wrong, while overly simplistic (it doesn't account for haunts actual damage or the multiplicative effects of the haunt debuff and the haunt buff overlapping) it's not wrong.

you can spend two shards on a haunt and SB haunt or two haunts, just remove a haunt from both options and you are left with one haunt and one SB haunt that I compared. The 15% vs 20% is just alpha being alpha (tooltip says 15% buff says 20%). I still stand by my assessment that SB haunt is a single target dps increase over just haunts.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

So when im supposed to use sb:haunt?

[kornoth]

My math isn't wrong, while overly simplistic (it doesn't account for haunts actual damage or the multiplicative effects of the haunt debuff and the haunt buff overlapping) it's not wrong.

you can spend two shards on a haunt and SB haunt or two haunts, just remove a haunt from both options and you are left with one haunt and one SB haunt that I compared. The 15% vs 20% is just alpha being alpha (tooltip says 15% buff says 20%). I still stand by my assessment that SB haunt is a single target dps increase over just haunts.

It's wrong because the haunt buff is 35% not 40, and i never said that haunt is better than SB:Haunt for single target, just for burst moments ( if you have 2 shards and you need to choose between the 2 options for single target ) .
And it's also wrong because if you do the math for Sb:Haunt, you use 2 shards, so for the maths of haunt you need to use 2 shards too so it's :

Damage haunt gives [(100*1.35)*16]-100*16= 560 Damage (100 is a random number for the damage the dots do)

Damage SB haunt gives [(100*1.15)*30]-100*30= 450 Damage (100 is a random number for the damage the dots do)

And don't forget the haunt perk: haunt last 2 more second so 10 , so the right final math for the moments is :

Damage haunt gives [(100*1.35)*20]-100*20= 700 Damage (100 is a random number for the damage the dots do)

[Deleted]

It's wrong because the haunt buff is 35% not 40, and i never said that haunt is better than SB:Haunt for single target, just for burst moments ( if you have 2 shards and you need to choose between the 2 options for single target ) .
And it's also wrong because if you do the math for Sb:Haunt, you use 2 shards, so for the maths of haunt you need to use 2 shards too so it's :

Damage haunt gives [(100*1.35)*16]-100*16= 560 Damage (100 is a random number for the damage the dots do)

Damage SB haunt gives [(100*1.15)*30]-100*30= 450 Damage (100 is a random number for the damage the dots do)

And don't forget the haunt perk: haunt last 2 more second so 10 , so the right final math for the moments is :

Damage haunt gives [(100*1.35)*20]-100*20= 700 Damage (100 is a random number for the damage the dots do)

Just worked it out fully:

x is the damage that the dots do each second (spell power=y): X = (Y*3.78/24)+(Y*1.7225/14)+(Y*1.82/18) = Y*0.382 damage every second from the dots (assume agony is at 12 stacks)

Y*2.955 = damage from haunt

1. [(x*1.35)*10]-x*10+[(x*1.35)*10]-x*10 = X7 damage (plus the damage of two haunts)
2. [(x*1.15)*20]-x*20+[(x*1.15*1.35)*10]-x*10 = X8.525 damage (plus the damage of one haunt)

Subbing in Y*0.382 = X

1. Y*0.382*7+Y*2.955+Y*2.955 = Y*8.58
2. Y*0.382*8.525+Y*2.955 = Y*6.21
32% Difference

hmmm well now it looks like its a dps loss to use SB haunt however I'm not accounting for malefic grasp, mastery, crit, haste or the lost uptime on malefic grasp from casting two haunts instead of one or any of the new stats. My guess is that as mastery and haste rise SB haunt will eventually become a dps increase over just haunt as haunt doesn't scale at all with mastery and poorly with haste. In fact lets run it with 30% haste and 50% mastery (just times Y*0.382 by 1.5 and 1.3).

1. Y*0.755*7+Y*2.955+Y*2.955 = Y*11.19
2. Y*0.755*8.525+Y*2.955 = Y*9.39
17% Difference

I'm really unsure about these results because haunt is doing way more damage than is normal (it accounts for only 5% of our damage on live). All I would take away from this is that SB haunt adds X*8.525 (where X is the damage your dots do every second) whereas two haunts add X*7.

Request: some to test the damage our dots do on alpha (the individual ticks of corruption agony and UA) and also the direct damage haunt does, to see if haunt is really doing as much damage as it seems.

[kornoth]

now i agree with you

[luckydevours]

Can we just agree that Sb:Haunt is a terrible design of a talent and compared to its lackluster alternatives will be absolutly mandatory in almost all situations and will ruin affliction gameplay up to the point where i consider rerolling if it remains unchanged?

[jupiteran]

if they are making shard generation at a low rate haunt should do equal damage as chaos bolt. id change cataclysm to do lesser damage but put up every dot on all targets on its range, same cd.

[eScar95]

I'm finding Affliction to be in a weird position in WoD PvP. Not sure how it'll hold up.